Insane new Illinois gun law proposal

a reply to: lordcomac

Sorry !
Let's try that again....

amgoa.org...

ETA : It's SB0173

a reply to: DAVID64

Link!

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: chr0naut

Right?
Like the 69 year old woman who was savagely beaten and raped while cleaning her church.
She couldn't defend herself because she couldn't carry her weapon in a church.

And there are lots of traffic accidents, too.

WTF does an isolated instance of crime, without a firearm component, have to do with firearm law?

The truth is that if you arm everyone, then the bad ones will commit crimes with firearms. They will be loaded, safety-off, gun up and aiming before the good ones are even aware that a crime is about to be committed.

If someone was savagely beaten, before they could access their weapon, then how would they defend themselves?

That's just comic-book nonsense, sorry.

I'm all for that. Now, if you can just get Republicans to help make acquiring guns harder and reduce the number to sell on the black market.

All those gun shootings in the Southside of Chicago. I bet most are illegal guns.

a reply to: Bone75

That sounds like a great idea to me. Put me down as a "yes."

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
We put a billionaire into the Whitehouse with no law experience, no military experience, a failed t.v.show w 10+ failed businesses....telling us normal folks, most on tight budgets w kids mortgages, utility bills etc...making decisions for and about us.

He should pump his own gas, buy Kraft Mac n cheese....shop at a $1 store, drive and park and stand in line for himself....to be in any position to control what's best for things he has no concepts of.

Yes and yes..folks should be made to fully understand those positions....otherwise...pack your stuff n STFU.

Does anyone think this isn't for the best interests of those affected? Do it, experience it, go thru it oneself....before dealing with it's progression, involvement and application to "we the people".

Alexandria Ocasio Cortes...is that you?

a reply to: DAVID64

i'm not against everyone taking some sort of firearms training.
i wouldn't make the classes mandatory in order to purchase a firearm.

instead i'd like to see a full course offered for a rifle and handgun. including the dis-assembly, care, safety and legal responsibilities of the owner. i'd like to see the class spend time at the shooting range. and in my world, upon completion the student receives a state issued handgun and rifle. the same make and model of the ones used during training.

originally posted by: mysterioustranger

originally posted by: StallionDuck
a reply to: mysterioustranger

LOL

That's funny. You know why? That relates to every single potus that's been elected in ever.

"Oh but they have law school".... Yeah and they make laws like Obama care.

Phahaha

You're funny.

"How many politicians does it take to screw in a light bulb?" "None. They just have their interns and aids do it".

How many politicians does it take to screw in a light bulb? None. They don't screw light bulbs. They screw the public.

originally posted by: toms54

originally posted by: mysterioustranger

originally posted by: StallionDuck
a reply to: mysterioustranger

LOL

That's funny. You know why? That relates to every single potus that's been elected in ever.

"Oh but they have law school".... Yeah and they make laws like Obama care.

Phahaha

You're funny.

"How many politicians does it take to screw in a light bulb?" "None. They just have their interns and aids do it".

How many politicians does it take to screw in a light bulb? None. They don't screw light bulbs. They screw the public.

Amen. Good 1.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: chr0naut

Right?
Like the 69 year old woman who was savagely beaten and raped while cleaning her church.
She couldn't defend herself because she couldn't carry her weapon in a church.

And there are lots of traffic accidents, too.

WTF does an isolated instance of crime, without a firearm component, have to do with firearm law?

The truth is that if you arm everyone, then the bad ones will commit crimes with firearms. They will be loaded, safety-off, gun up and aiming before the good ones are even aware that a crime is about to be committed.

If someone was savagely beaten, before they could access their weapon, then how would they defend themselves?

That's just comic-book nonsense, sorry.

Oh you mean like the west used to be? lowest crime rates in history back then.

a reply to: Kocag

God, yes.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: chr0naut

Right?
Like the 69 year old woman who was savagely beaten and raped while cleaning her church.
She couldn't defend herself because she couldn't carry her weapon in a church.

And there are lots of traffic accidents, too.

WTF does an isolated instance of crime, without a firearm component, have to do with firearm law?

The truth is that if you arm everyone, then the bad ones will commit crimes with firearms. They will be loaded, safety-off, gun up and aiming before the good ones are even aware that a crime is about to be committed.

If someone was savagely beaten, before they could access their weapon, then how would they defend themselves?

That's just comic-book nonsense, sorry.

Oh you mean like the west used to be? lowest crime rates in history back then.

It really depends upon the way you interpret the few figures we have from back then. As the populations were lower and reporting, less accurate, you cannot compare the figures to modern cities. At the very least, you would have to make the comparison with modern rural towns where low population, employment types and wealth concentration are somewhat similar.

In such situations, there is some evidence that modern crime rate is reduced, overall, since earlier times.

It would be foolish to suggest that with the same motivators for crime, and less effective early policing, that the actual crime rate would be less. Higher moral standards may have inhibited some crime, and certain crime types, such as drug related crime, would obviously been significantly less, that is hardly attributable to firearm proliferation.

Historical Violence Database - Criminal Justice Research Center Criminal Justice Research Center, Ohio State University suggests that in Dodge City, from 1876 to 1885 faced at least a 1 in 61 chance of being murdered - 1.65 percent of the population was murdered in those 10 years. Consider that in 1997 - 1998 the murder rate in rural areas was 0.005 percent (but has skyrocketed in recent years).

a reply to: chr0naut

uh huh. from what ive read the rates were lower no matter what some egg head says who got paid to come to said conclusion.

a reply to: blueman12
Black market guns are stolen and/or have their serial numbers scratched off, and so they are illegal and immediately confiscated, at minimum when police find them. A gun is pretty easy to manufacture for any of the hundreds of thousands of machine shops in America. It is only hard for a criminal to get a gun if they try to do it legally.

There's something else more common amongst the Southside Chicago shooters than the legal status of their guns. Where's the discussion to fix that?

a reply to: yuppa

All my grandparents lived in the so-called Wild West, though it was towards the end of the era, as it's portrayed in song and story... Their stories are generally a bit milder in nature then movies and novel would have us believe...

Most of the wild is wildly exaggerated, though not all of it. Seldom were there showdowns at High Noon on the main street. They were more likely to occur in dance-halls, poker palaces, etc... Cow towns like Dodge City, Abileen, and others were of course deservedly notorious for the wildness that occurred there. But that was usually when the cattle drives up from Texas were coming into town. Trouble was almost inevitable when booze, too much coin, women, and testosterone are combined in small spaces like saloons and dance halls.

But that was cow-towns, or mining camps, gold rush settlements, and the like...

In other places things were generally calmer, though, like today, you had people who thought what was yours is actually theirs by some mystical right of the bully. Again, generally, they might get away with it for a while, but eventually...the good folk in these towns, or farms would say "enough", and make it stick--or they'd not take it at all. Such as the Northfield, Minnesota shootout where locals took on the infamous James Gang, and essentially ended 'em.

In that era, if you rode into a farmstead, or town, looking for trouble, it was almost guaranteed you'd find it. My great grand-fathers, all four of 'em, were civil war veterans--Gettysburg, Shiloh, etc... Two fought for the north, two for the south...one on each side of the family. I'm told family reunions were...interesting. Many of those farmers were Civil War vets, less than inclined to put up with nonsense. So were, for many years, the law enforcement. Troublemakers generally were given less than cordial treatment, and buried out back in either Boothill, or on the back 40--and never missed, much less mourned.

There were also instances of mass cleansings of towns by "safety committees"--other wise known as lynch mobs, who would take justice, if it can be called that, into their own hands to root out undesirables.

So there was both good and bad in the so-called wild west, much like today. There are places where if you go looking for trouble? They'll find all that they want, perhaps too much...and they won't be missed or mourned in the aftermath, save perhaps by their mothers. I'd wager good money that there are farms around that if you go lookin' for trouble, there's a plot of earth on the back-40 waitin' to be filled, with no one the wiser.

a reply to: DAVID64

How about before making any laws about abortion the politician must have experienced an unwanted pregnancy.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: chr0naut

uh huh. from what ive read the rates were lower no matter what some egg head says who got paid to come to said conclusion.

That is because you have read opinions, not actual analysis of data.

a reply to: chr0naut

The truth is that if you arm everyone, then the bad ones will commit crimes with firearms. They will be loaded, safety-off, gun up and aiming before the good ones are even aware that a crime is about to be committed.

Buy a Glock the safety is in the trigger.

Also, the bad ones are already committing crimes with firearms.

a reply to: seagull

Dodge City 1879:

www.smithsonianmag.com...

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: chr0naut

The truth is that if you arm everyone, then the bad ones will commit crimes with firearms. They will be loaded, safety-off, gun up and aiming before the good ones are even aware that a crime is about to be committed.

Buy a Glock the safety is in the trigger.

Also, the bad ones are already committing crimes with firearms.

Only some are armed. Should we arm the rest, too?

You don't reduce shootings by distributing guns.