You say you care about your nation, but do you?

Brexit has created a new enthusiasm for nationalism, nation identity and so called care for nation.

I am questioning those very nationalists because the ones who seem to be the most nationalist seem to be those who have the least care in real terms for their fellow country person. They look more like thugs and ill educated reactionary backlash triggered gangsters to me rather than patriotic people caring for their nation.

Well do you care? Prove it if you do.

Do you care about your neighbour, do you care about your society, do you care about your infrastructure, do you care about your health and employment rights, do you care about the elderly, do you care about your children being educated properly, do you care about your homeless?

All I am seeing is a lot of thuggery and hot air. If you care about your nation then what exactly are you caring about? What is a nation if not the people who are its citizens?

Spouting a lot of hot air politics or wanting Brexit just because of some business opportunism or backlash against immigration is not caring about your nation. I care about my nation. I am sick of watching it go to the dogs because of political and economic opportunism. If you truly care about your nation then show it.

Do you care about all the empty Churches? Do you care about the lack of law and order resources (no police being funded to to implement law)? Do you care about making sure the tax payer funds some kind of society? Do you care that the NHS is being privatized by stealth under your very noses and that people are dying as they wait for treatment?

I don't believe this new wave of nationalism. I believe it is a lie and illusion, propagated by a few lousy in it for themselves politicians and their cronies who will make a killing out of it, but at the same time killing this nation you pretend to care about. You people don't even care about your own Grandma as far as I can see.

All this is going to be thrown at you when Brexit happens. The politicians will have a much harder time and be held to account far more than when we were in the EU. You will be forced to strive very hard if you want to protect anything that is left of rights you have. I think it is a big joke. All the Churches are empty. You don't care anything for your history or culture. You are going to face a Northern Ireland in contest with possible terrorism returning and to mainland Britain also. You will face a possible Scottish independence and even a Welsh one if things go wrong. You will face the Monarchy possibly being disestablished too because they are not going to back a globalist Liberal losing horse, you bet. They will leave you empty as the Churches they profess to care about.

What a joke. This is my first thread on ATS. What a shame it has to be like this.

G-D bless Britain! I care about my nation, but I believe patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

a reply to: Malak777

God Bless..

originally posted by: Malak777

Spouting a lot of hot air politics or wanting Brexit just because of some business opportunism or backlash against immigration is not caring about your nation.

Trade makes the world go round - this has been the same for every civilization and successful nation in history. As such, your quoted statement is completely and utterly incorrect - the opposite is the truth.

what a bunch of hooey.
So you think giving up your rights to a throng of unelected, self important oligarchs is superior to locally driven politics?

Right, dont move to my country as a voter

a reply to: Malak777

Do you care if our grandparents fought two world wars for freedom from Germanic dictatorships ? Two of them ?

What makes you think we should just let all their efforts go to waste now ?

And those that stuck to their guns and died were also seeing to the liberation of Europe .

a reply to: Sapphire

Thank you. Sorry, but I am feeling too upset to respond any further today. I don't see much caring about me in this nation. I don't see much caring about anything. I have never seen behaviour as ignoranmt as this all my life. Some stiff lessons are coming to this country. It is not going to work out. If it was then I would be glad, but a big mess is waiting for us. I said what I have said here in the hope that some will realize that nationalism is empty without real care for nation. Hitler was a nationalist, but he led his nation to certain destruction and was its biggest enemy. Likewise, Boris et al. "You are a better man than I am Gunga Din"!

a reply to: DoctorBluechip

That sir is hot air. Get some cool air under your pants via pro-EU propaganda.

Sheesh!

a reply to: Malak777

The EU is committed to ever closer union which will eventually lead to a United States of Europe , I care enough about my country to not want to see it be assimilated into that European super state tailored to the needs and desires of Germany and France.
The EU project is destined to fail , cracks are already showing between the top table and lower tier members , where we lead other will follow.

It isn't racist to want the UK to remain an independent state in control of its own borders , currency and laws.

originally posted by: Malak777
a reply to: Sapphire

Thank you. Sorry, but I am feeling too upset to respond any further today. I don't see much caring about me in this nation. I don't see much caring about anything. I have never seen behaviour as ignoranmt as this all my life. Some stiff lessons are coming to this country. It is not going to work out. If it was then I would be glad, but a big mess is waiting for us. I said what I have said here in the hope that some will realize that nationalism is empty without real care for nation. Hitler was a nationalist, but he led his nation to certain destruction and was its biggest enemy. Likewise, Boris et al. "You are a better man than I am Gunga Din"!

No need to feel sorry. But I don't think you and I feel the same way. Let me explain. You say Hitler was a Nationalist, however, this has little to do with how People Identify with their own Places of Origin. I for example am a Canadian, and I Identify with My own Country as a Nationalist. Does this make me evil? God Forbid, It makes me Proud of who I am and Where I come from. If you don't agree, that is fine. I won't make you feel like an idiot for being honest however; Lets take a look at what Nationalist says according to Wikipedia.

Nationalism is a political, social, and economic ideology and movement characterized by the promotion of the interests of a particular nation,[1] especially with the aim of gaining and maintaining the nation's sovereignty (self-governance) over its homeland.

Nationalism holds that each nation should govern itself, free from outside interference (self-determination), that a nation is a natural and ideal basis for a polity,[2] and that the nation is the only rightful source of political power (popular sovereignty).[1][3] It further aims to build and maintain a single national identity—based on shared social characteristics such as culture, language, religion, politics, and belief in a shared singular history[4][5][page needed]—and to promote national unity or solidarity.[1] Nationalism, therefore, seeks to preserve and foster a nation's traditional culture, and cultural revivals have been associated with nationalist movements.[6] It also encourages pride in national achievements, and is closely linked to patriotism.[7][page needed] Nationalism is often combined with other ideologies, such as conservatism (national conservatism) or socialism (socialist nationalism) for example.[2]

As some old Mexican once said...

I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.

Seems lots of people in the UK and elsewhere just like being subservient.

a reply to: Sapphire


That's the whole Globalist spin on Nationalism! But Hitler was a Nationalist crap. Hitler was also a Vegan so using their logic all Vegans are Nazi's...

Utterly childish mentality that allows themselves to be manipulated to not only hate their ancestry but to hate those who value their freedom and liberty! The hatred towards those of us who love our country who understand how those who control the world are out to take everything from us is obvious. It's those who welcome losing what little bit of freedom we have left is not only scary but falls right in line with the same ideology of those who followed Hitler and his agenda to control.


Freakin amazing...

a reply to: Malak777

Sorry, but I am feeling too upset to respond any further today.

Seriously?
Snowflake?

If you're getting so upset over pretty tame replies to your OP then perhaps ATS may not be the place for you my friend.

Brexit has created a new enthusiasm for nationalism, nation identity.....

Nationalism has always been a part of UK politics....you are aware of Scottish, Irish and Welsh nationalism aren't you?

They look more like thugs and ill educated reactionary backlash triggered gangsters to me rather than patriotic people caring for their nation.

Judging a book by its cover ok with you is it?
What do 'patriotic people caring for their nation' look like?

All I am seeing is a lot of thuggery and hot air.

Definitley....by both sides!

All this is going to be thrown at you when Brexit happens. The politicians will have a much harder time and be held to account far more than when we were in the EU.

And its a bad thing that our politicians will be held more accountable once we come out of the EU?

Being Agnostic I'm not really that bothered about empty churches.

I have to say most of your post just seems like predictable political dogma and creed.
Yet at times you contradict yourself.

You've offered absolutely no supportive evidence at all.

I am a passionate Brexit supporter, I care deeply about my fellow countrymen and this nation.
Do not suppose to think you know me and what I support or believe.

Your viewpoint is based on fear, dogma and shear ignorance.

I could have tore your OP apart sentence by sentence, but you're new and I thought I'd go easy.

a reply to: seeker1963

You, are one of the wise ones.

originally posted by: Malak777
Brexit has created a new enthusiasm for nationalism, nation identity and so called care for nation.

It was always there.... smothered by the EU ..... Brexit didn't create it

just released it, gave it freedom.

I am questioning those very nationalists because the ones who seem to be the most nationalist seem to be those who have the least care in real terms for their fellow country person. They look more like thugs and ill educated reactionary backlash triggered gangsters to me rather than patriotic people caring for their nation.

Thank you for that !!! nice broad brush, doesnt fit me in the least

I am an OAP worked all my life have brought up a family, who have

also worked and are bringing up the next generation, who hopefully

will grow up free from the EU which will implode its only a matter of

time, but by then the UK will not be taken down with them.

Do you care about your neighbour, do you care about your society, do you care about your infrastructure, do you care about your health and employment rights, do you care about the elderly, do you care about your children being educated properly, do you care about your homeless?

Well one things for certain the EU doesn't Thats why Brfexit came about

All I am seeing is a lot of thuggery and hot air. If you care about your nation then what exactly are you caring about? What is a nation if not the people who are its citizens?

It was they......*the people* the *citizens* who voted by majority to leave

the EU.

Spouting a lot of hot air politics or wanting Brexit just because of some business opportunism or backlash against immigration

I think immigration was the least concern of those that wanted to leave.

I don't believe this new wave of nationalism. I believe it is a lie and illusion, propagated by a few lousy in it for themselves politicians and their cronies who will make a killing out of it, but at the same time killing this nation you pretend to care about.

That is a personal belief which you are entitled to, however it isnt what the

majority think? The 'politicians and their cronies' are 80% against leaving

so I am not sure where you get your information from!!

All this is going to be thrown at you when Brexit happens. The politicians will have a much harder time and be held to account far more than when we were in the EU.

Thats what I like those who make the rules being held to account '' and

having to actually earn their income for a change!!!

You will be forced to strive very hard if you want to protect anything that is left of rights you have. You don't care anything for your history or culture.

It is precisely because we care about those things that we are leaving

before we are swallowed up digested and then spat out by the EU elite!!

a reply to: Malak777

I voted Brexit, essentially for two reasons.

The first reason is that our membership may well have been illegal, according to Magna Carta, the Petition to the Bill of Rights, and the Bill of Rights itself, which together make up the constitutional underpinnings of our country, with specific regard to the sections of those documents which describe the only way that powers of any nature can be assumed over any aspect of our existence as a nation, or as individuals in the United Kingdom. It is my belief that the way we came to be in Europe in the first place violated the segments of those documents, which deal with such a circumstance, in that we were not consulted before entry, only afterward (back in the day, as opposed to just recently). Originally, we were given the choice to leave, but only having been in for a while. This is directly contrary to the instructions laid out in those documents, which state that the people must be consulted and referendum performed, before ANY move is made to have any other power be either alongside or instead of the power of the Crown and the Parliament in this country. I believe that if people back then HAD been properly consulted, fully aware of the ramifications long term with regard to the way certain things are run and indeed the amount of scapegoating cowardice it would create in our Parliament, they would have refused point blank to have anything to do with it. As it is, from my understanding, the original choice given to the British people saw them even more poorly informed than we are now about the matters pertaining thereto.

The second reason I voted out, was because I want this country to have a chance to do some things that will require the total reconfiguration of government, something that I believe will be impossible with the EU government trying to back the status quo here by the back door, by way of their corporate connections to our banking and corporate entities here in the UK. I want our government cut off from all external support, so that when the people come demanding change that starts from the moment of asking, and lasts till the heat death of the universe, we get it, and no one can give us any stupid excuses or scape goat the EU to dissuade us or put us off our stroke. Total disunion from the EU, meaning no taxes paid to it for any reason, no regular bills from it, all out territorial waters back in our hands and such... great, doesn't mean much to me. But denying the right wing manipulators who have been running my country since before my birth, their favourite excuse as to why things cannot be vastly better than they are, will force our government to either collapse through the mistrust of the people toward it, or be reconfigured by force by us, the people, something which, again, would be impossible if our government was receiving support from the EU and their corporate friends on the continent.

I want to see our country woken up to the toxic, cancerous thing that is the entirety of conservative thinking, so that we can finally get on with the process of rebuilding parliament so that no one who has never struggled at the bottom, can ever wield any power, because in a nation where most people come from the bottom up, not the middle or top, having leaders who have never grafted is frankly ridiculous and promotes the persecution of the hardest working people in the country, by those who do the least. This cannot be permitted.

I want to see our country run by the people who make it work, thats the street sweepers, the bin men and the posties, those who wield the wrenches and swing the hammers, those whose hands bare the mark of the blood, sweat and tears they have expended on their labours, not those who have shed the blood of others just to avoid shedding sweat themselves. I want this country run by the kind of people who the current government don't mind killing by starvation and neglect, or by burning them alive in towerblocks, or by permitting them to die on the street, or inducing their death from cold by stealing their sleeping bags. Those are the sorts of people, the class of people I want running our government, because there is no such thing as a person who has never suffered the ills of society in full, who knows a DAMNED thing about how to solve those ills. Even the most well educated, and empathetic person who is well off and lived an easy life, cannot represent for the streets as well as people from the streets can, and since we are in the majority, I damned well insist that we be the majority in government, until such time as someone figures out how to make society so balanced that there is no standard of living difference between the highest and the lowest paid, the hardest workers and the least hard working, there has to be a balance in place to check the power of the elite, and that balance has to be a proper, compassionate, lead from the streets approach to all future governance.

There is no way to make this happen, if we are going to remain in Europe, because every time we try to enact a financial policy, or a taxation policy, or a piece of legislation to do with the SEVERE penalties for the wealthy when they dodge, avoid or evade tax for example (I would like to see a situation where, for example, it is simply illegal for any company to exist whose purpose, stated or covert, is the mitigation of exposure to taxation, for example, the company that the current PM's husband works for), that law and the penalties involved would have to pass a bunch of muster that is no ones business but the peoples of THIS country to decide upon. I have no time for that, and no one, even the most lefty idealist in the world does either.

I want to live in a country where the rich can be as rich as they like, as long as they pay everything they owe, hide nothing, cannot get rich by handling other peoples money, and can only get rich by working the same kind of work as the rest of us plebs, that is hard, and for far more than the four hours a day at the golf course, talking crap to a mate about shagging the secretary and calling it a business meeting, that the majority of our nations richest five percent spend their time doing. I want to live in a nation where ONLY grafting can get you success, where luck is out of the equation, where everyone who puts their shoulder against the wheel gets a fair shake, and everyone who can't gets supported and upheld. I want a nation with an NHS so ideologically opposed to being run by corporate entities, that an entire team of our intelligence service will be dedicated to... making it clear to those seeking to pry the NHS from the hands of the people, that it would be a risk to THEIR health to continue the effort. I want a police force that is more concerned with JUSTICE than law. We want bobbies on every other street corner, on foot, twenty four seven. But we don't want them causing hassle to pot heads. We want them dealing with sociopaths who try to fleece our nation of billions of pounds in tax evasion on a yearly basis. We want them preventing crime by capturing house breakers on the scene of a crime, not ten days later. We can't have these things and the other things we need, in Britain as a part of Europe. We can only get those things done, by leaving, and raising the current status quo to the ground, to be rebuilt for the many, not the irrelevant few at the top.

a reply to: Malak777

And Malak777,

I am with you when it comes to a distaste for nationalism as it is known today. I believe that far too many people get away with hiding their fascism behind that terminology, holding it up before them as if it legitimises their disgusting, inhuman behaviour in any regard.

It makes me sick to my stomach that soil fought for by the stout hearted fellows who clobbered the Nazis on behalf of this nation, is now dwelt on by persons no less toxic and degenerate than the Nazis were, that we permit these decrepit, gutter dwellers to sully the name of this nation or its flag, a flag they often wave with enthusiasm, while throwing Roman salutes, like the traitorous dogs they are.

It should be understood though, that when they rise, they present us, finally, with a legitimate target. There is no reason moral or otherwise that we would not strike that target when it is presented, because we have standards to uphold that will not bare deviation from in the slightest, and the basic instruction "Don't be a xenophobe" ought to be one of those. I do not know that it is possible to be more opposed to fascism than I am, and even I voted out. Its not a simple issue like you are making it. There are many ways to skin an animal, and this nations government needs skinning, no matter what it costs. If it is not done now, the cycle of constant exploitation of the poor by the rich will only continue, and closet fascists in government, particularly in the Tory party, will continue to escape the righteous hand of justice, despite their criminal and murderous treatment of the weak.

I cannot condone another moment of that, and that is why I voted out.

No...

Let me now try to put this to rest once and for all.The utter, utter bull crap that is being touted for brexit. The " I don't want to be ruled by Germany because we fought them in WW2".
If you use that as an excuse, and it is an excuse, why don't you shout from the rooftops for Toyota, Nissan and Honda to close their factories here and go back to Japan. Cos they were with the Germans in WW2 and were just as bad. Or don't that fit with your agenda.

originally posted by: crayzeed
Let me now try to put this to rest once and for all.The utter, utter bull crap that is being touted for brexit. The " I don't want to be ruled by Germany because we fought them in WW2".
If you use that as an excuse, and it is an excuse, why don't you shout from the rooftops for Toyota, Nissan and Honda to close their factories here and go back to Japan. Cos they were with the Germans in WW2 and were just as bad. Or don't that fit with your agenda.

There is a vast difference with being affable and doing business with,

and being subjugated to.