'Gray/Grey' aliens: Clearly Hom. Primates

My argument: Strictly speaking, the type of entity that has been reported in the majority of abductions -- commonly called a 'gray' or 'grey' -- is a primate that, judging purely on observed features, should be classified along with known animals such as gorillas, chimpanzees, and humans (both extinct and living). If an accredited academic where to discover the body of a 'gray' they would surely classify it in the subfamily 'hominae'... if not in the genus 'homo' itself. This is because, judging by avaliable descriptions of grays, their bodily structure is not significantly different than that of the living and extinct great apes.

To support this notion, I offer the following points:
1)Strictly speaking, the apparent morphology of these 'aliens' is that of a hominine
2)The 'grays' have the capability to breed with humans, at least according to eyewitness accounts. This would actually make the 'grays' members of the human species, according to the most commonly held definition of species... though the technological methods that are needed by the grays to mate with humans point to only a similarity in evolutionary origin.

Point #2 has been written about extensively on ATS. I'm sure that everyone here is familiar with tales of gray breeding experiments, so I won't write about such tales here. I think we can all agree, though, that such reports are out there, that most if not all members here have read them, and that they have been associated with the UFO phenomena for decades.

I will deal with Point #1 by first providing a general description of a 'gray' and then linking to common primate classification/description systems:

Gray Description: Usually a being between 3.5 and 4.5 feet in height. Four limbs, with the posterior limbs providing bipedal locomotion. Forelimbs used to grab and manipulate objects. Head large, with two foreward-looking eyes that are situated on a face with a minimized snout and mouth. No tail. Apparently warm-blooded (as it can operate at night). Large brain relative to body size.

Hominae description:
"All primates, including humans, share at least part of a set of common characteristics that distinguish them from other mammals. Many of these characteristics evolved as adaptations for life in the trees, the environment in which earlier primates evolved. These include more reliance on sight than smell; overlapping fields of vision, allowing stereoscopic (three-dimensional) sight; limbs and hands adapted for clinging on, leaping from, and swinging on tree trunks and branches; the ability to grasp and manipulate small objects (using fingers with nails instead of claws); large brains in relation to body size; and complex social lives."
"In the past only humans were considered to belong to the family Hominidae, and the term hominid referred only to species of humans. Today, however, genetic studies support placing all of the great apes and humans together in this family and the placing of African apes—chimpanzees and gorillas—together with humans at an even lower level, or subfamily."
"According to this reasoning, the evolutionary branch of Asian apes leading to orangutans, which separated from the other hominid branches by about 13 million years ago, belongs to the subfamily Ponginae. The ancestral and living representatives of the African ape and human branches together belong to the subfamily Homininae (sometimes called hominines). Lastly, the line of early and modern humans belongs to the tribe (classificatory level above genus) Hominini, or hominins.
"This order of classification corresponds with the genetic relationships among ape and human species. It groups humans and the African apes together at the same level in which scientists group together, for example, all types of foxes, all buffalo, or all flying squirrels. Within each of these groups, the species are very closely related. However, in the classification of apes and humans the similarities among the names hominoid, hominid, hominine, and hominin can be confusing. In this article the term early human refers to all species of the human family tree since the divergence from a common ancestor with the African apes. Popular writing often still uses the term hominid to mean the same thing."
from
encarta.msn.com...
further info:
zoology.okstate.edu...
www.emory.edu...
anthro.palomar.edu...

Comparison (my own notes will be in brackets, otherwise all text is from the source):
1. Preservation of generalised limb structure with primitive pentadactyly.
Describe primitive pentadactyly limb (3 girdle bones; 1 upper limb bone; 2 lower limb bones; carpals/tarsals; metas; phalanges), and how various other mammalian orders have lost various bones (especially fusing the lower limb bones).

[My Note: The grays are described as having four limbs and no tails. Based on exterior observations we cannot tell what the internal bone structure is... but the grays have been described as being able to bend over at the waist, imply a similarity in rib-cage/abdominal structures]
2. Enhancement of free mobility of the digits, especially of the pollux and hallux (both used for grasping).

[The grays use hand tools]

3. Replacement of sharp, compressed claws by flat nails; development of very sensitive tactile pads on the digits.

[The grays are not described as having claws]

4. Progressive shortening of the snout.

[The grays have noses that are reduced to being two pinpoint nostrils]

5. Elaboration of the visual apparatus, with the development of varying degrees of binocular vision.

[The most distinctive feature of the grays are their large eyes]
6. Reduction of the olfactory apparatus.
These 3 are all linked and progress from prosimian through monkeys to humans.
7. Loss of certain elements of the primitive mammalian dentition. Preservation of a simple molar cusp pattern.
Tooth formula reduction: primitive mammal 3.1.4.3/3.1.4.3; prosimians and NWMs 2.1.3.3/2.1.3.3; OWMs & apes 2.1.2.3/2.1.2.3. Note, that it is the anterior 2 premolars that we have lost.

[We have few descriptions of gray 'mouths', but a popular UFO legend describes a military dentist who was aksed to make copies of an alien jaw that had no teeth as we would describe them]

8. Progressive expansion and elaboration of the brain, especially of the cerebral cortex.

[The grays, though about half the height of a human being, are described as having heads equal to or larger than humans]

9. Progressive and increasingly efficient development of gestational processes.
And this has been further expanded by Napier and Napier 1967:

10. Prolongation of postnatal life periods.

11. Progressive development of truncal uprightness leading to a facultative bipedalism.

[The grays are always described as bipedal.

Source:www.leeds.ac.uk...

Explanations: Several things come to mind upon realizing that the grays are, by definition, primates that should be placed near humans and other great apes in any classification system...

1)The grays may be descendants of the same ancestor that humans and chimps evolved from. This idea is supported by descriptions of grays that describe beings with long arms that reach below the knee joint.
2)The grays may be a continuation of trends witnessed in the evolution of homo sapiens. They may, in fact, be the descendants of humans living today.
3)The grays may be beings from a parallel universe. This would make them 'facsimiles' of the higher primates that are familiar to humans. That is, they may be what became of human evolution in a divergent timeline.
4)The grays may be descended from an early member of the genus homo tht, developing advanced technology prior to the emergence of homo sapiens, colonized deep space.
5)The grays may not share any origins with humans at all. They may indeed be extraterrestrial. Their similarity to us and our ape relatives may be due to
a)direct genetic experimentation/modification of humans
b)convergent evolution, where disimilar species come to resemble each other because they exist in similar niches/environments.

I'll post pics and charts later on.

How do we know Greys even evolved from a homind species? What if they evolved from a Dolphin-like species on their homeworld? Their usage of telepathy and their higher degree of intelligence compared to Earthlings seems to point in the directioon of a non-hominid base species they evolved from. As far as compatibility with humans, perhaps that is a part of their scientific knowledge at work. I believe it is widely circulated that our scientists are trying to meld in labs the DNA of creatures like pigs and mice to human DNA.

[edit on 28-2-2005 by Reptilian_Queen]

Pictures:

1.A friendly Chimpanzee:



another fellow:



A human w/o hair:



An unusual human:



A sketch of a 'gray' alien:



From these photos, it's clear that the three species represented have similar features.

Photos are inconclusive evidence of the DNA chartacteristics of greys. You are thinking too much along the lines of Earthling Science which is quite limited compared to the science the greys seem to utilize.

I would say greys look like humans due to convergent evolution theories.

The evolutionary path to intelligence that some scientists here claim, that upright walking led to free use of upper limbs, which spawned tool use and from that, intelligence, might be how greys look like hominids. It could be that this evolutionary method is the baseline for how intelligent species are created throughout the entirety of the universe. That is if all life is similar to what we consider life here.

As for genetic manipulation. I've read of several cross breeding experiments that humans have tried with various animals and plants primarily unrelated to each other. Other than the fact that all experiment candidates come from earth and that much of life shares some genetic commonality. Not to much if any success with these experiments either. If a more advanced intelligence also tinkered with genetics, who knows what they could achieve? I wouldn't place man and greys in the same boat as a result because ETs may just be so advanced that genetic frankenstein-like tinkering may be all thats involved in making human/ET hybrids.

[edit on 28-2-2005 by Frith]

Originally posted by Reptilian_Queen
How do we know Greys even evolved from a homind species? What if they evolved from a Dolphin-like species on their homeworld? Their usage of telepathy and their higher degree of intelligence compared to Earthlings seems to point in the directioon of a non-hominid base species they evolved from. As far as compatibility with humans, perhaps that is a part of their scientific knowledge at work. I believe it is widely circulated that our scientists are trying to meld in labs the DNA of creatures like pigs and mice to human DNA.

[edit on 28-2-2005 by Reptilian_Queen]

My point is that the 'grays' have physical traits that would encourage most zoologists to put them together with the larger primates known as homines. Are they really primates? Who knows. My point is just that, based on external observations, they are closer to humans than humans are to horses, dogs or cats... all animals that we know originated on earth.

Why should higher intelligence point to non-primate origins? That's like saying that, because humans are smarter than gibbons, that they cannot be primates. The same goes for the issue of 'telepathy'. Humans are capable of speech while most primates are not. That does not exclude them from being primates.

And, as far as telepathy goes, we do not know if that is a natural ability. It may be that the implants abductees often report are actually communication devices that are planted into the brain.

Originally posted by Reptilian_Queen
Photos are inconclusive evidence of the DNA chartacteristics of greys. You are thinking too much along the lines of Earthling Science which is quite limited compared to the science the greys seem to utilize.

What I'm doing is providing the standard 'definition' for a type of primates that humans are grouped with. I'm saying that the grays match this general description.

It's kinda like saying that a 'car' is a ground vehicle with four wheels and an internal combustion engine. A Ford Taurus and a Geo Metro are both 'cars' because they both fit that description. If someone didn't know where GeoMetros come from they could conclude that they were 'cars' if they knew that Ford Tauruses, Chevy Impalas, and Nissan Maximas were cars.

If you believe reports about the autopsies of the Roswell Aliens, their biological features are very different from that of hominids. Even their cell structure is different. Instead of lining up in rows, their cells messh together like nets. I still say based upon metaphysical characteristics described by abductees such as telepathic communication and a high degree of intelligence they must have some type of non-hominid DNA in them. I say they evolved from dolphin-like creatures.

Frith,

Personally, I tend to think that these are actually aliens who became interested in us because of our similarities -- achieved through convergent but disparate evolution -- and have been visiting us for research reasons.

If we put the possibility of ETs out of the question, though, a biologists would be very tempted to describe these things as being related to humans.

Originally posted by Reptilian_Queen
If you believe reports about the autopsies of the Roswell Aliens, their biological features are very different from that of hominids. Even their cell structure is different. Instead of lining up in rows, their cells messh together like nets. I still say based upon metaphysical characteristics described by abductees such as telepathic communication and a high degree of intelligence they must have some type of non-hominid DNA in them. I say they evolved from dolphin-like creatures.

The problem with that, though, is that autopsy stories are suspect. If they pan out, though... you are clearly correct. The external similarities would be either highly coincidental or by design, then.

What about the possiblity that they evolved from dinosaur-like creatures?

Originally posted by Flinx
What about the possiblity that they evolved from dinosaur-like creatures?

This could explain El Chupacabra's alleged physical features. Seriously though, there are many other different animal types that could have evolved on other worlds. And there are probably even more exotic types of animal species that aren't catalogued so easily in Earthly terms that greys could have evolved from.

i believe that the evolutionary path of 'greys' (assuming they exsist) would be more along the lines of a dolphin-like or cetacean-based life form.

1.intelligence of cetaceans is above most other animals of this planet
2.no bodyfur/'grey' skin... also see in cetaceans
3.supposed paralyising and 'distortion of the mind' ability, some theorised this could be caused by a concerntrated ultrasonic beam from a organ called the 'melon' which is seen in the dolphines of today... dolphines do disorientate and paralyise their prey to some degree, helping them in their hunting of prey(some may say dolphines 'stun' there prey). this power possessed by the greys is just highly amplified or evolved in comparisment to the dolphines abilities of today... the 'Stare" as abductees call it, is merely the positioning of the greys anterior skull area, the projection area where the grey equivalent to the cetacean 'melon' is located, to achieve maximum beam concentration on the abductee. when the Grey looks away, the beam would naturally become less focused and the effect would diminish, just as it appears when the Grey is distracted momentarily. the description of the greys head is usually large, triangular and rounded in front and back. this suggests a large and rounded rear and frontal brain lobe structure. this is exceedingly similar to the physical structure of a cetacean brain. it is the main difference between cetacean and human brains. this large rounding is thought to be an adaptation of the cetacean brain to handle the enormous data flow received from eco location and other sound-based communications faculties. it should also be noted that on the rare occasions that abductees hear verbal sounds from Greys, it is described as high-pitched, sometimes chattering or staccato clicks or beeps. these are all similar to the air vocalizations of dolphins. while the brain structure of the Greys has remained basically constant, it can be assumed that the eco location ability of the greys would have been decreased almost completely. after all there is probably little use for eco location is such a society... it could have been breed out of the species during cloning.
3.the eyes of Greys are described as large and black, with what appears to be a protective shielding covering the eye. many Terran aquatic animals have developed protective outer eye shields for underwater use.

the cetacean-based life form on another planet decided to go back to land... or another advanced civilisation accelerated or helped the 'cetacean-based life form' evolutionary path, for an only what we could speculate on (maybe slavery).

thats what i think anway

I have to say that I agree with you there. I base my opinion on what abductees have said about the greys too. It really makes me think differently about swimming with the dolphins.

Reptilian Queen: do you have a source for the "their cells are meshed like nets instead of lining up in rows" bit? That's interesting and I hadn't heard it before...would love to know where it comes from.

onlyinmydreams, based on what you are saying The Greys could very well be our future. That would be a good reason for them to need our DNA and so called "cross breeding". It would also be a good reason for governments to keep the greys secret.
www.crowdedskies.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>




EDIT: missed a word.

[edit on 1/3/2005 by Umbrax]

Originally posted by Umbrax
onlyinmydreams, based on what you are saying The Greys could very well our future. That would be a good reason for them to need our DNA and so called "cross breeding". It would also be a good reason for governments to keep the greys secret.


[edit on 28/2/2005 by Umbrax]

I am not a scientist, but I think that it is relatively clear that any species that could actually make use of our genetics in a 'breeding' experiment would have to be close to us at a genetic level. The parts -- the blueprints, to be clearer -- would have to be close enough to fit together. There's no way of getting around that. A worm cannot breed with a turnip, a monkey cannot breed with a shrew... but humans can, based on stories, breed with 'grays'.

I have a limited, college level understanding of genetics. Still, it's pretty clear to me that two species could only be interested in meshing genes if they were close enough on a biological level to create viable offspring together.

As for people that argue that dolphins and whales are closer to the aliens than humans, all I can say is.... Sorry, but we're talking about several hundred degrees of difference. From the perspective of a dolphin or a whale I actually think that humans and 'grays' might look the same.

--
Ultimately, though, it seems like reality could be that:
1)ETs created humans in "their own image"
2)Or that 'gray' aliens are hominines of another branch

Either way, we won't know the truth until a major disclosure event occurs. Still, as of right now, I'm leaning towards the general idea that humans and 'gray' aliens share some sort of common ancestry (or future?).

the only thing i got from reading this post is that micheal jackson looks like an alien thx for the tip