Bypassing Travis Walton's abduction saga to assess the reality of that 'Fire In The Sky'

a reply to: zazzafrazz

It's always the way.

As well as Walton's impressive low-key, believable demeanour in all his interviews since 1975, the general CONSISTENCY of his account is quite striking. I somehow doubt the ATS interview offered anything revelatory in 2010 since his story will have been honed to perfection by then, covering all possible questions and angles, but his likeable personality is always a comfortable listen.

My instinct may be wrong, but during that 1993 Larry King interview (with Klass bellowing incessantly), while Travis was as demure and believable as ever, Rogers seemed quite shifty, almost smirking at times. Of course that may be due to the TV limelight (and Klass's less-than-subtle attacks), but it reminded me of Pierce telling Klass in 1978 that Rogers spent the entire working day away from the other loggers - a perfect opportunity to rig a hoax UFO with Travis as a willing accomplice (he also did not work that day due to an apparent illness, staying in the truck - or DID he stay in the truck?) and the other five completely oblivious. A perfect set-up.

Impossible to prove, but a possibility. Pierce seemed determined to work out how the hoax was perpetrated - the general appearance of the UFO seemed suspect to him with hindsight - but he obviously gave up trying before joining the Believer crowd in 2012 and perhaps enjoying some late publicity in his dotage.

Notification of the abduction by a friend of Travis Walton's brother. 07:00
051:11.08.1975 Taylor AZ mp3 link

"They were talking about UFO communication in the truck when it happened"
"He's always wanted to communicate with these people"

Being a contactee or interested in UFOs of course doesn't make you a liar, but bringing this up in a vehicle and then you have it happen like a stage queue makes it more extraordinary than just the extraordinariness of an abduction. (I think i just made up a word extraordinariness )

His brother Ralphs interview sounds like he is just a UFO spotter calling in a mates tale to a radio show. He does say "He's never done anything dumb like this before, you know like a hoax" granted he isn't making much sense at that juncture. But if my brother went missing by a blue bolt and craft, I would be extremely upset and worried, stressed, asking for community support, doing news broadcasts.

This brother is recounting a tale, and NOT showing concern or talking about finding his brother in any way at all,
he mentions he going back out to the site with a camera to see if they can see anything with a laugh at the sign off......pfffft

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
Notification of the abduction by a friend of Travis Walton's brother. 07:00
051:11.08.1975 Taylor AZ mp3 link

"They were talking about UFO communication in the truck when it happened"
"He's always wanted to communicate with these people"

Being a contactee or interested in UFOs of course doesn't make you a liar, but bringing this up in a vehicle and then you have it happen like a stage queue makes it more extraordinary than just the extraordinariness of an abduction. (I think i just made up a word extraordinariness )

His brother Ralphs interview sounds like he is just a UFO spotter calling in a mates tale to a radio show. He does say "He's never done anything dumb like this before, you know like a hoax" granted he isn't making much sense at that juncture. But if my brother went missing by a blue bolt and craft, I would be extremely upset and worried, stressed, asking for community support, doing news broadcasts.

This brother is recounting a tale, and NOT showing concern or talking about finding his brother in any way at all,
he mentions he going back out to the site with a camera to see if they can see anything with a laugh at the sign off......pfffft

So, are you all saying they were in on it?

Everyone,
Here is the ATS live radio episode 28, the Walton interview. It's very good, he seems more engaged than usual, fresh
Skip to Travis starting at 1 hour and 32 minutes:
drive.google.com...

Thanks M!
enjoy.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Good points, zazzafrazz. And if "extraordinariness" doesn't exist (no fun in googling it), it officially does now.

I suppose one could argue that three days had passed when that call was made, so maybe he was distressed at the outset and became a bit more composed since. But yeah, it hardly helps the case.

What does help is the lack of even a tiny squeak from somebody/anybody coming forward in 43 years to reveal the likelihood of a hoax. Nothing. Sure, logger Pierce believed it was a hoax but had nothing to back his suspicion up, despite his innate hatred of Walton. (Incidentally, Allen Dalis also didn't get on with Walton and had his own personal grievances with the law at the time - which may explain why his first polygraph test was declared void.)

As has been said earlier, there is no real evidence in this case to prove it real or prove it a hoax. Yet it's impossible to ignore the fact that a bizarre UFO was seen from the outset by all seven loggers at close range (some 75-85 metres away IIRC) that emitted a tremendous flash that lit up the area.

And at least five members of the crew had no dealings with any potential hoaxing. Rogers and Walton were very close friends (Rogers being his future bro-in-law after all) and did have the means and motive - especially considering the duo were separate from the rest of the crew for the whole working day - but, again, there is no evidence for such a grand scheme.

And it would have been a pretty stupid scheme, too, with all the risks involved and a full-scale air and land search taking place that was forcibly encouraged by Rogers himself after three days when the police seemed to lose interest, and as the world's press gathered.

The case leaves me frustrated, fascinated and confused in equal measures. Like Rendlesham, it simply won't go away!

While two of the loggers, Smith and Dalis, have kept to the shadows since 1975, John Goulette (alongside Pierce), spoke up for the first time in 37 years at the 2012 International UFO Congress.

For the sake of completeness, and for folks who don't fancy watching the linked video below, I've transcribed what Goulette said (he seems reasonably well-grounded and astute compared to the troubled Pierce):

It seemed like slow-motion to me, but if you've been in a vehicle wreck or something, or a combat situation, a lot of times it will seem like it's slow-motion when it's really not... Well, we got out and we were arguing about going back or going to get help. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw a flash through the tree-tops and I guess that was when we decided, you know, "Let's go back". I'll never understand why he was running up there. I was afraid for him and for us, what he was gonna cause us and what was gonna happen to him.

There's so many great, wonderful things out in this world; I've seen so many things, you know, and I did not let that become the priority in my life. I put it behind me, ignored it, and I'm glad I did.

When I went out to help search for Travis, they split us up into groups, individuals - each person was with a different group and I believe each group had a deputy sheriff with them. And the whole time I'm out there trying to find Travis, that deputy kept asking me, "Why don't you just tell us where the body is and we can all go home. We know you did this, there was no UFO". It was a law enforcement move, just trying to get us to admit something we hadn't done.

When I left that area, it was because of the accusations and the doubt; people accusing us: first it was murder and then it was a hoax. Something like this happens to you, of course it's an important event in your life. Mike and Travis showed a lot of courage to stand up there for all those years and just keep telling the truth over and over again, even though a lot of people doubted it.

Note that Pierce on the panel with Goulette is lying through his teeth about Klass harassing him for three years, offering $10k to say the case was a hoax - I wonder if he'd forgotten that 1978 phone conversation with Klass (see my OP) in which it's made clear that the money was a general offer for PROVING the existence of ET craft. At least Pierce didn't punch Walton in 2012, considering how much he'd previously despised him!

Furthermore, Pierce admits his daughter encouraged him to speak up again after watching the 1993 film with him, so it's hardly a good example to set for her with those blatant lies about Klass.

By contrast, I don't doubt Goulette's account and feelings towards the case.

why do people keep saying there is no proof? Isnt all the loggers passing a lie detector test enough? If i remember old Sy Gilson said there was no way all of them could pass it if it didnt happen. They also retook lie detector tests again (within the last ten years? dont remember the date) and passed. That at least shows you that they all truly believe that the story they are telling is true. Why would they risk taking the lie detector tests again if they all passed the first time if it didnt happen?

If the lie detector tests really did happen, and they all did pass....then there really is only two possibilities:

1. it happened
2. they were all made to believe it happened by some sort of mass hypnosis.

a reply to: saltlick

It's all circumstantial and anecdotal and very much open to opinion. A committed believer sees all they need to know it was a genuine encounter with aliens and a committed debunker sees it as a greedy hoax on the gullible.

Lie detectors sound great and look fantastic on TV shows. In reality they're very unreliable and Travis has failed and passed several tests. He's passed some questions and failed others on the very same test which pretty much negates any of the results.

It's a great story though, isn't it?

a reply to: Kandinsky

Certainly is an interesting one at that.

My earlier post was not an attempt to discredit the Travis story......but to me, the first, fresh in his mind, interview, is probably the closest one will ever get to what happened to him.

Just to my mind....it seems more like a "special Ops" operation, or some other clandestine Earth Human activity they got themselves involved in.....Hell, it may have even been the Russians!! for all we know.

Im disappointed in the first interview, that the interviewer didnt probe more thoroughly, with asking for more detailed information.......Like, what colour skin/hair/eyes did these "Humans" have? did they have 70s long hair or 70s crew cuts? Did they smell? Did they attempt a mind transfer with him (so prevalent in later "Abductions")....certainly the 50s/60s/70s were full of Human type Nordic Spacemen etc, care of Adamski and those other charlatans, and Brazilian Farmers with sexy redhead Nordic/Asian aliens.

Apparently something happened to him, He believes it, too bad his friends took off, and didn't Really see what happened next.....

As an Aside.....One of the Most popular US TV series for Middle America during this period was ................

The Waltons !!!...about John Boy and his family operating A LUMBER MILL, Cutting TIMBER all day!!!! (1972-81).

1975.....Towering Inferno and Airport 75 were blowing up the cinema, Jaws had just come out to scare everyone out of the water (Close Encounters was still in Speilberg's mind), Captain and Tenille had Love keeping them together, Bee Gees were Jive Talking, hadnt got the Fever on a Saturday night yet, The New Small Chrysler Cordoba appeared, Muscle cars were dead, but you could still get a 455 Super Duty Pontiac Trans Am, G Ford was drivin the White house highway, A new Space movie was rumoured to be in the works, to blow everyone's socks off (Star Wars), disco was about to reign supreme, Starsky and Hutch were riding in the big red Tomato....And a guy from the tv show the Waltons...Travis Walton, was abducted by Humans in a Flying saucer....and all is right with the World.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz


Everyone,
Here is the ATS live radio episode 28, the Walton interview. It's very good, he seems more engaged than usual, fresh

Skip to Travis starting at 1 hour and 32 minutes:
drive.google.com...

Thanks M!
enjoy.

Unfortunately the sound balance on that particular file isn't the best. Travis sounds like he's mumbling from a mile away at times. So I've boosted the volume a bit more, edited it down and uploaded just the Travis interview at the link below.

ATS Live Travis Walton interview (22MB)
Note - This link will no longer be valid after Feb 14th 2019

a reply to: Kandinsky

It's all circumstantial and anecdotal and very much open to opinion. A committed believer sees all they need to know it was a genuine encounter with aliens and a committed debunker sees it as a greedy hoax on the gullible.

That's really what it all boils down to.

For instance Rogers was working away from the main crew all day. Travis is supposedly sick and stayed in the truck. Then when the UFO is sighted, Travis, obviously feeling much better, gets out of the truck. He runs towards the lights. Rogers sees Walton fall to the ground. Then drives off at speed with the rest of the gang.

Now that sequence of events could be seen as suspicious. Rogers and Walton could have spent the day rigging up a hoax. Rogers then made sure that the crew witnessed something they would not be able to explain. But also got them out of there quickly and not close enough to establish it was hoax. Walton than had time to clear up any evidence and escape.

Or it could be seen as just a normal routine day. Rogers panicked seeing Walton collapse. So drives off in fear that he and the boys in the truck were next to be attacked.

No direct proof either way. Unfortunately it goes in that huge bucket of such stories where the truth and the proof remain forever elusive.

I sought out and re-watched (since its release) the 1993 movie just now - I almost felt duty-bound, I suppose, lol.

It's ironic that the actual scenes inside the ship (which cover about 10-15 minutes of screen time) almost kill the film for me; not only do they seem spliced in from a different film entirely, they also invite ridicule due to their overblown horror-movie flavour and what feels like an awkward attempt to link it to Strieber's 'Communion' as some sort of pseudo-sequel.

The use of the standard 'Strieber Grays' but then revealing them to be space-suits is a problem, and it's no wonder Walton himself had misgivings about this section of the film. In fact, I'd forgotten that the 'Gray' disguise gave way to something more akin to what Walton actually described: shortish, humanlike, hairless beings with mammalian eyes rather than the typical black, huge, almond-shaped insect-like versions so beloved of New Mexico burger bars and T-shirts the world over, including Bob Bigelow's buildings.

Aside from that section, it's an irresistibly enjoyable film, well-paced, suitably suspenseful and boasting an underrated Robert Patrick who is terrific as Mike Rogers, arguably holding the whole enterprise together whilst James Garner's ill-defined cynical cop (an amalgm of different officers) guffaws and raises an eyebrow throughout the proceedings.

Travis Walton's cameo in a church is a distraction rather than charming, and the use of Henry (ET's Elliot) Thomas as a logging crew member (with minimal lines) is maybe an in-joke too far. And why the film decided to slim the seven-man crew down to six seems a petty variation, but these are small quibbles compared to the OTT spaceship scenes.

Despite gaping flaws, a decent 7/10 from me.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz


Everyone,
Here is the ATS live radio episode 28, the Walton interview. It's very good, he seems more engaged than usual, fresh

Skip to Travis starting at 1 hour and 32 minutes:
drive.google.com...

Thanks M!
enjoy.

What I noticed about Travis during this interview was that when ATSers asked him unique questions as only ATSers can do and most likely the questions were not asked of him before, he was quick to answer. To me, it is unlikely that he prepared an answer for every question.

Another interesting observation of mine was that he keeps telling us that the greys eyes blinked and that their eyes resembled some animal species on our planet.

I have not watched, nor will watch the 1993 film because obviously if Travis feels another more accurate film is needed then I won't waste my time.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

7/10 is not bad.

So what do you rate the "Actual Real" Travis Walton story and performance? 2/10? 5/10?



My kids found some new TV series recently, I only watched the first episode the other day ........Stars Henry Thomas

"The Haunting of Hill House"........I rate it around 5-6/10........

a reply to: mirageman

No direct proof either way. Unfortunately it goes in that huge bucket of such stories where the truth and the proof remain forever elusive.

Yep, I can count the admitted hoaxes on the fingers of one hand. The Goode and McCoy one would be high on my own wish list for a conclusion given that so many ingredients were present. It had it all and plain logic says it was a convoluted hoax or something very extraordinary.

I skimmed OP’s posts and I honestly don’t know what OP is saying.

It’s all a hoax for $2,500 from a newspaper?

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

There are some audio recordings from the week of the incident that few people know about. You'll enjoy hearing them. The guys who were with Walton made several calls to NUFORC as well as dealing with the sheriffs. To modern senses this will seem absurd, but back then NUFORC was fielding 1000s of calls a year and had somewhat of a public presence.

One of the calls did more to make me doubt the whole thing than anything else I've read or heard. I won't say which one so you can judge for yourself and, to be fair, it might sound different to me all these years later. There's also the sterling fact that we shouldn't judge how people react to experience and everyone's different. Here we go:

Travis Walton Abduction in the Apache-Sitgreaves National
Forest, AZ. November 6, 1975.
51-58 are the earliest calls recorded dealing with the Walton Incident.

051:11.08.1975 Taylor AZ mp3 link
Notification of the abduction by a friend of Travis Walton's brother. 07:00

052: 11.08.1975 mp3 link
Jerry Phillips reports to Gribble about his conversation with
the Taylor, AZ Town Marshall regarding the abduction. 04:00

053: 11.09.1975 Snowflake, AZ mp3 link
Ralph Anderson, Travis Walton's brother at 11:21 AM 12:15

054: 11.09.1975 mp3 link
Jerry Phillips and Robert Gribble discuss the investigations
progress at 6:00 PM 09:06

055: 11.11.1975 mp3 link
Jerry Phillips and Robert Gribble discuss investigation progress
at 10:15 AM. 02:45

056: 11.11.1975 Snowflake, AZ mp3 link
Ralph Anderson at 5:44 PM. 09:19

057: 11.13.1975 Snowflake, AZ mp3 link
Ralph Anderson at 8:15 PM. 08:13

058: 11.15.1975 Taylor, AZ mp3 link
Friend of Travis Walton's brother at 12:47 PM. 12:4

National UFO Reporting Center Hotline Recordings (1974-79)

...WTF does that post even mean...?

originally posted by: mirageman
Nice 'alternate' take on the Travis Walton case CB.

This is like listening to your favourite band rehearse a song without the lead vocalist. It may clarify some of what was going on in the background. But ultimately you still have to refer to the original track to give the whole thing some context and understand what it was all about.

My problem with this case is that almost everything is anecdotal. Walton was gone 5 days but his system showed no build up of ketones despite him claiming he was not given food or water during his experience. He also chose to call his sisters from a telephone booth on his reappearance not the emergency services.

I will have a listen to the interviews Kandinsky has added to thread before commenting further.

If I’m understanding your post... That is ridiculous lol.

You probably don’t have any special expertise on “ketones” and there’s nothing far-fetched about someone calling a family member...

originally posted by: KKLOCO

originally posted by: mirageman

My problem with this case is that almost everything is anecdotal. Walton was gone 5 days but his system showed no build up of ketones despite him claiming he was not given food or water during his experience. He also chose to call his sisters from a telephone booth on his reappearance not the emergency services.
.

I’ve read some of your threads on this, MM. I’ve seen the holes you’ve pointed out. I do have some questions for you. Forgive me if they have been answered already.

Travis claims he was only conscious for 15-20 minutes — from the time of getting zapped to the time he awoke. So from his own testimony, he was essentially comatose for the better part of 5 days.

1. Is it possible he had some type of IV to feed him nutrients? Hence, the lack of ketones.

2. Is it possible that wherever Travis went, there was only several hours lapsed? Yet, here in our plane of existence, over 5 days lapsed? After all, Huge time disparities are a major theme of countless high weirdness cases.

3. Most importantly, the supposed reason for the hoax: Did they get the desired extension on the logging contract? This is apparently the strongest argument for them concocting this hoax in the first place.