NEWS: The Ten Commandments Reach the Supreme Court

Originally posted by Kidfinger
This is just stupid. The 10 commandmants are a part of everyones life whether you all like it or not.

Furthermore, the 10 commandments are an essential part of our legal system every commandment can be found in one form or another in the books of law. Though not regularly attributed to the 10 commandments, the same meanings are there. Thou shall not steal. Thou shall not commit murder. Thou shall respect thy father and mother. There are laws that say pretty much the same thing. I'm so sick of these anti religous weenies attempting to get everyone else to shield them from what they dont want to hear. If you dont like it, dont listen. If you dont believe it, go where people feel the same way you do.

Kay Dad - you know I love you. Because of that I've thought about your posts carefully - and concluded you aren't considering the context. So I gotta speak up.

First of all, the ten commandmensts are ancient Jewish rules - and they are common throughout the world and with every religion. ...It's kinda what makes people special: knowing what it takes to get along and live together in groups. You're right - it's basic stuff. But Christian fundamentalists are claiming these rules as their own - and demanding that others accpet the rest of the package too.

...The problem I have with that is the push to fundamentalism - always a bit dangerous. Alone, those monuments aren't a problem - in the context of fundamentalism, and intolerance, they are. Fundamentalism is the backbone of terrorism and naziism. It's really scary because there's no room there for anything else - no difference, no criticism, no alternate viewpoints. Nada. Fundamentalism says "my way or the highway."

...Why not have a monument with the Bill of Rights or the Constitution if the goal is to celebrate American values?

PS. RANT posted the history of those monuments in the thread he linked above - worth reading.

PPS.

by marg, from another thread

I am going to tell you how I call any group that think themselves "good enough" to bring their values and believes and tried to shove them into others because is good for them.

I called them fundamentalist and they are becoming a plague recently thanks to our "born again" Christian president, they are bolder and they are running rampant, and they care less if they step in your civil and constitutional rights, after all Mr. Bush made sure with the Patriot act that everything can be possible with cohesion. and the right laws to protect them.

Love ya Dad, please don't disown me. You are the best.

sofi

Sofi, we wont always see everything the same. Doesnt bother me in the slightest Diversity is the road to intellectual enlightenment. Without opposing views, you would never be forced to reevaluate your own.

So...........

While I understand the reasons agianst fundamentalist pushing an agenda, this goes right back to what I said before. What difference does it make? Do you know where you stand with religon? Are you secure with your views? IF so, other peoples views on faith and philosophy of religous beliefs should not affect the view of your reality. As long as I know they are good rules to live by, I dont mind them being shown in public. I look at the religous zelots attempting to claim these 10 commandments as their own and I realize that these people are ignorant of universal laws of humanity, which is what the 10 commandments boil down to.

Believe in the message, reject the messenger. In this case, I believe the messenger to be a hypocrit and a liar. But the message of the 10 commandments is for everyone. Like I said earlier, you dont have to be Christian or Catholic to know right from wrong.

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Sofi, we wont always see everything the same. Doesnt bother me in the slightest

Diversity is the road to intellectual enlightenment. Without opposing views, you would never be forced to reevaluate your own.

What difference does it make?

...It makes a difference because it is being used as a lever - using the legal system establishes precedents for interpreting the Constitution and Bill of Rights. ...Once a ruling is made, a precedent is set - which then can be applied to other situations.

It's a legal game that leads to the remaking of America - in the courts, where it counts.



.

I would not have a problem if they put these commandments in the court rooms, just so long as the beliefs of other large parts of the society are reflected right along side it.

Might I suggest an atheist quote written below the commandments? Maybe something like:

"There is no solid evidence that any god exists, divine intervention does not rule our future, and religion should never dictate law."

Or

"Make all the graven image's you want, there’s no evidence that anything bad will come of it..."

Of course they should be good quotes, not ones that I made off the top of my head.

Problem solved.
(except for the Christians complaining that their view should be the only one)

Kidfinger
I think the part of your argument I take most umbrage with is the contention that the ten commandments are universal laws. They are most certainly not, at least not all of them. The ones that are good rules to live by still have to be interpreted within the context of any given situation. If the Ten Commandments were universal law, every culture on earth would follow them, but even the Christians and the Catholics and the Jews can't seem to stick to their beliefs!

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, granted. We're talking about our mutual, shared space here though! That must be representative of a majority, yes, but also inclusive of the minority. Religion is divisive, not inclusive, it always was, always will be. To promote religion in the halls of law and government is like promoting self immolation in a burn ward. Democracy is an unstable concoction, and religion is a fuse. To create a society that cultures intelectualism, and to create a society that reveres religion, are mutually exclusive.

Our common ground represents us as a culture. If the Aliens come down to pick me up, and leave because of the silly, centuries old, irrelevant and presumptious engraving of a courthouse monument, I'm taking it out on you Kidfinger!

America does have some roots in Christianity, but that doesn't mean we need to cling to them! We have to embrace new ideas if we want to keep moving forward, not old stagnant ones. Not to mention, America was not the source of the commandments, so it's not really our national heritage. A better quote would be from Thomas Jefferson, or Benjamin Franklin, or Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., or Jimmy Hoffa for cryin' out loud. The American identity and the Christian identity are different, though equally hypocritical, and should stand alone in the eyes of history.

To me, the date that these were placed into the public buildings would be the most relevant issue.. and well, surprisingly, you hardly ever read a story about when these things were originally place in the building...so, I am not sure when they were.

But, well, if they were placed in them at the beginning of our country or are a century or more old....then I'd say that they would have historical significance and should remain....but if they were put in them since the time when the courts ruled that their should be no led prayers in schools, or religous teachings, ect....well, then they should be taken down, since putting them up was in direct violation of the present interpretation of the laws....
so I guess what my question would be, is weather or not, these particular monuments were place where inside the buildings when it would have been considered illegal to do so by the supreme court interpretations of the law....

Originally posted by dawnstar
To me, the date that these were placed into the public buildings would be the most relevant issue.. and well, surprisingly, you hardly ever read a story about when these things were originally place in the building...so, I am not sure when they were.

It's in the thread. The Fraternal Order of Eagles put em up all over the country in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

They don't even appear to acknowledge doing it now as per their website. Or have any position or care what happens to them now.

We beat communism, so I guess the God statues worked.

umm.....thanks, that's what I thought....

wonder how they handle that one commandment, the one telling the to honor the sabbath...and to keep it holy....
we're all so off the beaten path, we can't even agree as to when that sabbath is susposed to be....and well, many churches point to the wrong day.

so, in the 50's, 60's and 70's, they threw things up in all over the place.....can I assume this was a reaction to what they thought was the "moral decay" of that time? maybe they were hoping that later one, down the road, they could point to them, justifying their theocratic governing ways?

well, I'm more of an antique than these things are, so obviously there is no historical value to them that can save them, is there.

Unless they are willing to accept the possibility of some future "maternal order of wiccans" starting a charity drive to have a bunch of stone tablets with the wiccan creed on them placed in these courthouses and such next to their ten commandments, I would advise that maybe they should just back off a tad?

[edit on 28-2-2005 by dawnstar]