Shutdown may delay IRS refunds for Americans who need them the most

originally posted by: FilthyUSMonkey

originally posted by: Irishhaf
All trumps fault... He wants 5 billion to spend in country, and that's bad... Dems want 54 billion for foreign aid.

But that is considered good by the left... I just don't get it.

Spend money inside the country bad, outside the country good... It's nuts.

OH, my.....

Do I have to give the off-topic speech again?

Please work with me here human.

You'll be wasting keystrokes.

I admire you have expectations of hosting a thread that speaks of effects while omitting cause.... But that's just not how it goes, the two are part of one another.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: FilthyUSMonkey

originally posted by: Irishhaf
All trumps fault... He wants 5 billion to spend in country, and that's bad... Dems want 54 billion for foreign aid.

But that is considered good by the left... I just don't get it.

Spend money inside the country bad, outside the country good... It's nuts.

OH, my.....

Do I have to give the off-topic speech again?

Please work with me here human.

You'll be wasting keystrokes.

I admire you have expectations of hosting a thread that speaks of effects while omitting cause.... But that's just not how it goes, the two are part of one another.

I disagree. If I wanted to do a mud pit thread on "What are the causes of the shutdown" I would have. This thread is very limited in scope.

Using your logic someone could derail any thread into a metaphysical discussion of the meaning of life and the purpose for creation. I know that is pretty hyperbolic, but is it impossible to have a thread that is specif without generalising it out into a larger left/right slug-fest?

Thanks for the input though.

originally posted by: FilthyUSMonkey
Using your logic someone could derail any thread into a metaphysical discussion of the meaning of life and the purpose for creation.

The purpose of creation was to allow us to arrive at this very point in time so we could argue about who is to blame for the shutdown. Fact.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: FilthyUSMonkey
Using your logic someone could derail any thread into a metaphysical discussion of the meaning of life and the purpose for creation.

The purpose of creation was to allow us to arrive at this very point in time so we could argue about who is to blame for the shutdown. Fact.

Has Billy Pilgrim become unstuck in time? Or is this more along the line of Arthur Dent?

a reply to: FilthyUSMonkey

I disagree. If I wanted to do a mud pit thread on "What are the causes of the shutdown" I would have. This thread is very limited in scope.

Fair enough, but one of your main OP talking points was should they pass something directly relating to tax refunds while keeping the shutdown in place.

Well, this is a pissing contest, and part of the leverage comes from holding everyone hostage for increase shock value....

So ya see, why would they take away one of the parts that affects most Americans? They wouldn't, because that is more of a direct impact that the average citizen will remember for the rest of the year and probably longer.

If this didn't happen around tax season, the second it's over, you have one week left in the news cycle, then it gets buried and we all forget (except for federal employees, they won't).

originally posted by: FilthyUSMonkey
a reply to: peter_kandra

As usual, the less money you have, the less consideration you seem to get from the government.

One thing I have noticed in my interactions will lower income folks - they also seem to have a lower understanding of their options when it comes to their own finances.

Perhaps. From my personal experiences, they know how to game the system just fine.
When I used to own rental properties, several tenants received subsidized housing either through section-8 or state/county programs. I'd have to chase most of them down for a $40 water bill or their small percentage of the rent if it wasn't totally subsidized, yet several drove luxury vehicles and received countless other forms of social services.

I'm not just bashing one-segment of the population either. I'm constantly hounding my 22 year old son for what my wife and I feel are poor financial decisions. It's almost as if common sense as it relates to finances skipped a whole generation.

originally posted by: FilthyUSMonkey
a reply to: peter_kandra

As usual, the less money you have, the less consideration you seem to get from the government.

One thing I have noticed in my interactions will lower income folks - they also seem to have a lower understanding of their options when it comes to their own finances.

To be fair, there are many people amongst various levels of income who actually learn of options available but still refuse to understand their own financing.

Personal example: my own husband refuses to understand that big tax refund is not free money but money he earned and was used interest free. He looks at it as a gift. It is NOT!

His alternate excuse is that he would impulsively spend it on menial things instead of have a nice vacation when he gets it back. Another excuse is that investing in CDs etc. would be a bigger capital gains tax. Sigh.

I am currently attempting to get him to change his W-4. He would increase his pay and could increase his 401k contributions which will benefit us more than the government. I can wait a few years to have those really nice vacations after he retires!

So I would have to say it makes no difference on income or understanding levels but more the result of the mentality effect. Various fears have been instilled and shells have been created. They simply refuse to believe it is possible to have better options.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Fair enough, but one of your main OP talking points was should they pass something directly relating to tax refunds while keeping the shutdown in place.

Kind of said that....

I said leave the negotiations for later. My question, if obscure, was if there could be some specific relief with respect to tax refunds.

I guess the whole point for all parties involved is to keep up pain on the American people. Tax refunds, by the responses I have seen in this tread, are very important to many Americans, and are somewhat expected and counted on by some folks in our nation to make ends meet. Mostly lower-income folks.

So once again, it looks like folks with less resources are going to suffer while a political issue gets settled.

Oh my.

a reply to: CynConcepts

Agreed. However, I do notice that education level, where you work and what kind of work you do, what your work environment is like, does affect who you interact with, and what you discuss. I have learned a lot from co-worked over the years on how to manage finance, what opportunities exist for tax reduction, investments, etc.

My friend works on a loading dock/shipping yard moving steel on and off of tractor trailers. I don't think he has time to discuss 401K's or Roth investments with his co-workers when they are simply trying not to get crushed under a crane full of I-beams.

a reply to: Sillyolme

But have you considered the Chrono-Synclastic Infundibulum ?

Oh my, I am dragging my own thread off topic.

Bad, bad man. I must be punished.

originally posted by: FilthyUSMonkey
a reply to: CynConcepts

Agreed. However, I do notice that education level, where you work and what kind of work you do, what your work environment is like, does affect who you interact with, and what you discuss. I have learned a lot from co-worked over the years on how to manage finance, what opportunities exist for tax reduction, investments, etc.

My friend works on a loading dock/shipping yard moving steel on and off of tractor trailers. I don't think he has time to discuss 401K's or Roth investments with his co-workers when they are simply trying not to get crushed under a crane full of I-beams.

Networking with other coworkers can be helpful but I would imagine in this modern internet world it is not too difficult to have access to others when you are not working. Personal financial discussions are not discussed while on the clock...best to keep it personal and query about it when one is not working.

Thus why most employers has someone to handle human resources. If not, one still has the Internet and access to others who can assist them or give them direction.

a reply to: CynConcepts


My buddy the steel guy does not have internet. There are a lot of folks who don't, and many of them are limited to cell phone only internet. They are not motivated to use their phones for economic research into tax structures. I think they play candy crush.

Being a small business I dread tax season and pray I get to keep a few dollars each year. I would fully support walling off all irs building as a national security concern as well lol.

"" I was joking Mr Agentman dont be hating***

a reply to: Saiker


As a small business owner you should be paying QBT and other taxes regularly.

a reply to: FilthyUSMonkey

No, sorry. In fact, I think we haven't gone nearly far enough. Shut the Federal government down entirely, save for the most crucial/essential/mission critical components. Basically, if it doesn't involve the military or national security shut it down for good.

Besides, even if Congress were to override the shut down, they can't force the Executive branch to actually spend the money allocated to it. Simply let ~95% go un-funded. You don't even have to fire people "for cause." Stop paying them. They'll stop showing up for work eventually.

a reply to: JBurns


OK, your position is to shut down the Federal government. Have a fine evening.

originally posted by: FilthyUSMonkey
a reply to: CynConcepts


My buddy the steel guy does not have internet. There are a lot of folks who don't, and many of them are limited to cell phone only internet. They are not motivated to use their phones for economic research into tax structures. I think they play candy crush.

Once again...it comes down to one using personal responsibility in their decisions and choices. Internet is available for free at most local libraries. Yet, if one is too lazy to use their spare time to better themselves...why should others care?

Warning- WALL OF TEXT BELOW!

TL;DR- My parents were leeches off the state but still got a refund due to lying about their marital status. It was the best time of the year.

I'm really enjoying this thread. I didn't expect to hit as close to home but it certainly has moved in that direction.

My mother was a mastermind at finding ways to get money/food stamps/whatever was available from the government. Her career was BS'ing social workers with sob stories and fake medical issues. She went as far as legally divorcing my step-father because she was going to get a big cut to her monthly income after they discovered she was lying about being married. My step-father always worked, I give him credit for at least that, but that was part of the issue because the government never knew about that and as a result, the benefits we received were much higher. We lived in a project which had annual inspections, *every* trace of him was hidden for these inspections to not let on she was married. I jumped ship when I was 13 so I'm not 100% positive about their exact finances, but I believe all the necessities were covered by the government, housing, electricity and food. I'm not sure of the exact benefits we had, but food stamps were definitely one and I'm 98% sure she also got a check which she could cash and I seem to remember about $4-500 being the amount of each one. This was in the late 80's-mid 90's.

Tax season was honestly the happiest time of the year. It was better than Christmas because instead of my parents feeling bummed or ashamed about not getting a lot of gifts for us in December, they then had that refund coming back that wasn't attached to an idea that any of it was for my sister or I. They always brought us out to eat the night it was cashed, but after that it was either spent on a bar tab or something they were REALLY waiting on it for, a new piece of sh!t car, a new TV, a new bed, nothing really ever super important, because all the important stuff was already covered by other people's money.

That money was blown as fast as it came. They were always behind financially and a lot of times very much took that out on my sister and I. Of course, the constant bar tab they had running for YEARS had nothing to do with it...or the legal trouble from the DUI's and arrests...it was all my sister and I for needing money for field trips or school clothes! Regardless, the mindset of my mother was that she needed help. She'd use EVERY AND ANY POSSIBLE BS medical excuse and switch doctors until she'd find someone that'd diagnose her with something just to keep feeding the government sob stories. She worked for 4 hours at a Burger King ONCE. She picked up a cleaning job which she had my sister and I go in and do most of it for her, that lasted 2 weekends. "My knees are so bad I just can't stand and I'm not smart enough for an office job. I'm stupid it's not my fault I was raped."...and then it was aneurysms, which no proof was found until about 20 years after she started claiming it. Hey, if ya believe in something enough and work hard enough to get it, ya just might get it one day! Depression, anxiety, bi-polar....the meds that woman has been given!

Sorry if I'm going off on a tangent. I want to stress that my parents were FAR from being the only ones up to this. Growing up in low-income housing, it was the same story all over the place. The people that weren't BS'ing and just being lazy actually got out of there. I had several friends growing up with recently divorced mothers, one widowed, these women busted their asses and got their families out of those areas. They were also the ones who you wouldn't see sitting in their bathrobes all day, sitting on the porch talking sh!t about other neighbors or getting into stupid fights over who borrowed something last or who has the nicer piece of sh!t car in the parking lot.

So yes, that is a great observation that people around that poverty level tend to stick to each other. They'll share tips on how to BS their social workers more than they'll share recipes. Not like you need to share recipes when your dietary staples are Hamburger Helper, Kraft Mac N Cheese and Chef Boyardi. They'll help hide their neighbor's live-in boyfriend's belongings during housing inspections.

My negative outlook towards that system isn't only because of the people who abused it, it's also because the social workers who actually set this stuff up are just as bad. They'll buy any story just to pass it along instead of calling BS when it needs to be done. My mother and stepfather were married for 26 or so years, during that time, there were maybe 3-4x that my mom was legitimately concerned she was going to lose some form of her benefits. For the amount of BS she was giving them to receive those benefits, it should have been a legitimate concern EVERY DAY. There was never anyone doing any kind of investigating into these people. I would actually LOVE to look into the denial rate of people trying to receive aid in that city.

I can't comment on the lower class who are actually trying to get out of their situation, I never really met any of them unless I address myself. I moved in with my father when I was 12. I had to move back to my mom's at 15. I got a job the first week I moved back and have not gone more than a month without working since. I've never once gone to the government for a handout, even when I very well could have. It wasn't about pride, I just have absolute disgust for that system and to those who honestly need it, my apologies, but I honestly believe they are the minority. It took me a long time to get my finances under control, but at 36, I'm a home owner and will opening my own business within the next several months.

I just went through my FB friend's list now and everyone who grew up in low-income housing like I did all seem to be still living in low-income housing. Multiple children, multiple VFW/living room weddings, lots of stupid purchases and pictures of booze. They're the same people my and their parents were. My sister just popped out her first kid, wasn't sure who the dad was until after he was born. She had a great job as a nurse, but had to get some assistance because her "back issues because mom made us move so much when we were kids" are really acting up and she can't work full time, especially now that her miracle was born......and history repeats itself some more.

a reply to: FilthyUSMonkey

So some people can not use last paycheck to go get a ral check from crooked Jackson healing oh well i guess they will just have to wait till after January to file when w2s come in oh well. .