I'm interested in becoming a Mason

Originally posted by ServoHahn
Masons and applicants. I know this might be hard, but could you explain a little about why you joined the Masons and why you thought the Masons would be the best organization to fill your needs?
-T
P.S. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it.

I can pretty much "ditto" what Sebatwerk said. I was active in my college fraternity (which was founded by 4 men, two of whom were Masons...I'm sure akilles or Necros will find some conspiracy there) Near the end of my college years I wanted a similar group that I could belong to in the real world. Masonry filled that need. I petitioned the Lodge in my college-town and didn't know a SOUL there. Now over 15 years later many of them are still amongst my dearest friends. I've met several terrific people through attending Masonic functions across the country and sometimes when I least expect it ... by noticing a Masonic ring, or car emblem. You see, we Freemasons have a deep respect for one another. We come from all walks of life and all creeds and races, but we're brothers in the truest sense.

The only thing that CANNOT be said of Freemasonry is that we rule the world. To be honest, I think the world would be in much better shape if we did.

Regards

Senrak,

PS, your dollar bill does NOT say Mason. But you can believe that ol' story if you like as well....

Originally posted by ServoHahn
Masons and applicants. I know this might be hard, but could you explain a little about why you joined the Masons and why you thought the Masons would be the best organization to fill your needs?
-T
P.S. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it.

I've been out for a few days without much time for reading or posting here, but I had some time today and as I was reading through this thread I kept seeing your P.S.'s, but I thought I had better wait to respond until I saw if anyone else got to it already. Hahaha when I read this last on I seriously cracked up.

The thing is, it doesn't say Mason. I mean yes, it has all the letters there, and to some people that just MUST mean that they were put there on purpose. But think about this: wouldn't they put it in some kind of order? I mean you have to bounce around the pattern to even make up the word! And as far as the hexagram? Dude any letters that are arranged in a circle have the potential to make TONS of geometrical shapes, if someone is willing to look hard enough, or in some cases stretch enough. The idea that there is some hidden message on the dollar is just a tool of the Anti-Mason to arouse suspicion. Once you get the average person suspicious, it is tough to sway their opinion, even if theirs is false, because to someone new to the idea of Freemasonry the so-called "proof" "exposed" on sites like freemasonrywatch looks to be fairly compelling. Upon closer examination though, all the theories can be cut to shreds. All you have to do is have an inclination to learn the truth, and ask the right people, and you will find the answers you seek.

There are many good Masons on this board that can point you in the right directions. I can tell you they don't usually take kindly to insinuations veiled as questions. Those will get you flamed. Honest questions get honest answers.

Originally posted by ServoHahn
Masons and applicants. I know this might be hard, but could you explain a little about why you joined the Masons and why you thought the Masons would be the best organization to fill your needs?

Its not like that at all, ask not what masonry can do for you, Ask what can you do for masonry.

P.S. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it. My dollar says "mason" on it.

OK no problem , you send me all your dollars with that on it , I will send you all my Yen with America on them.

Axeman,
You know, there's a lodge within a few blocks of my apartment. I'm still doing legitamite research on Masonry, but I like this board because I can see arguments for and against. Usually the way I know that something is worthwhile is when those who are for it can tell me the cons of the particular subject. (In this case, you'd tell me some of the short comings of Masonry or some things that you're not proud of in regards to it) I'm not asking for anyone downplay their own brotherhood, but ANY instance of an attack against the Masons is vehemently defended by all of its members. I know there are a lot of crackpots out there... I've seen their websites. But there are still legitamite questions to be asked, and some questions are answered too quickly. As per my question about the dollar, you're right, no one answered it and it was making a little irritated (but that's probably more becasue I've quit smoking recently). I heard on KFI (a mainly right wing radio station) about the hexigram spelling MASON. Now, anyone looking at the one dollar bill can see that it is full of symbolism. Symbols usually mean something, right? I mean, by definition symbols mean something other than what they literally are. There are legitmate questions about which are symbols and which aren't. For example, is it a coinsidence that there are thirteen letters in "annuit coeptis" and thirteen letters in "e pluribus unum", when there are so many other thirteens on the back (I wouldn't be surprised if there were thriteen items that could be counted to thirteen). I know there were thirteen original colonies, and that's why, but there are also a lot of other "thirteens" historically. I wonder if it was just a farce that "Jaques de Sade" was executed on (May?) Friday the 13th, 1314.
Anyway, none of that was just presented in an orderly fashion. I count 8 thirteens on the dollar. The number of bricks top to bottom of the pyramid (and I know King Solomon did not have a tomb like that... not historically), the number of letters in "annuit coeptis", the number of letters in "e pluribus unum", the number of stipes on the flag (duh), the number of arrows in the eagle's grip, the number of leaves in the olivebranch, the number of olives on the olive branch, and the number of stars above the eagle's head. Much of these I just found by looking at the thing. Something I observed that made me believe that the dollar said MASON was that the stars above the eagle's head are arranged in a hexigram pattern. It is my understanding that the Star of David (or perhaps simply a hexigram) is a Masonic symbol. That's the rumor around the trailer park. The overly large space between annuit and coeptis also draws my attention. I'm not saying that there's some super secret Masonic treasure that is revealed by the pattern, or that it's some kind of set of Satanic instructions on how to rule the world. I am saying that it's a symbol and it's not that hard to see. Again, it's entirely possible that a Mason designed the dollar without realizing that it spells out those letters, but I'm simply curious. Also, you say that this is just an accident. How do you know? Is this a regular thing in masonry? Are there actual symbols similar to the above mentioned and this isn't one that you've been told about? Or perhaps you're specifically told that this, that, and the other are not symbols (and to let the rest of us know).
-T
P.S., I realize that this is an utterly trivial subject, I don't even really know why I'm here. *looks around, confused*
P.P.S. "There are many good Masons on this board that can point you in the right directions. I can tell you they don't usually take kindly to insinuations veiled as questions. Those will get you flamed. Honest questions get honest answers." When you say "flamed", I wonder if you mean the same thing that those SciFi BBoarders used to do when they were in middle school. You're too used to arguing against irrational conspiracy theorists... it's making you too defensive. Lighten up. Instead of arguing against people, try to enlighten them. I've seen your other posts (as well as Masonic Light and Leveller) and when you argue like that, you only lead people to believe they're on to something.
Remember, history is written by the winners, and people who write their own history tend to write it from a very kind perspective. I've seen some very nice, rebuttal pieces written to defend Benedict Arnold, for example. It may do some good to try to find some contradictions in Masonic history and give them to the anti-masons to show them that you agree that freemasonry isn't perfect but it isn't sinister either.
[edit on 14-3-2005 by ServoHahn]

[edit on 14-3-2005 by ServoHahn]

[edit on 14-3-2005 by ServoHahn]

Originally posted by ServoHahn
You know, there's a lodge within a few blocks of my apartment. I'm still doing legitamite research on Masonry, but I like this board because I can see arguments for and against. Usually the way I know that something is worthwhile is when those who are for it can tell me the cons of the particular subject. (In this case, you'd tell me some of the short comings of Masonry or some things that you're not proud of in regards to it) I'm not asking for anyone downplay their own brotherhood, but ANY instance of an attack against the Masons is vehemently defended by all of its members.

There are bad things about masonry. I've been a mason for less than a year, and I'm really very young (25) compared to other masons (average age of a mason is 70), so maybe I see masonry a little different than others. Regardless, the only problems I have with the Craft have more to do with the membership and its politics rather than anything having to do with masonry. But masonry really is a great thing that truly changes a person for the better (provided the person makes the effort to learn the mysteries of freemasonry). There's a great deal of respect given to the Craft by its members, and theres a very good reason for that.

I know there are a lot of crackpots out there... I've seen their websites. But there are still legitamite questions to be asked, and some questions are answered too quickly.

Some of the questions that people ask, or rather some of the accusations people make, offend us not just as masons, but as PEOPLE. That's why we jump all over the questions. We want there to be no doubt as to what the truth is.

There are legitmate questions about which are symbols and which aren't. For example, is it a coinsidence that there are thirteen letters in "annuit coeptis" and thirteen letters in "e pluribus unum", when there are so many other thirteens on the back (I wouldn't be surprised if there were thriteen items that could be counted to thirteen). I know there were thirteen original colonies, and that's why, but there are also a lot of other "thirteens" historically. I wonder if it was just a farce that "Jaques de Sade" was executed on (May?) Friday the 13th, 1314.

There is a lot of symbolism, but most conspiracy theorists are really staring too hard and seeing things that really aren't there. Accusations abound, and everytime a mason denies it and others agree, it's not because we're lying. It's because the person making the claim is REALLY truly wrong, yet nobody believes us.

In any case, I suggest that you not get wrapped up in the elaborate fairy tales that these guys have concocted. It's like an adlib that keeps getting added to all the time. Conspiracy theory can find foul play in anything, it's like staring at the clouds and seeing what you want.

Again, it's entirely possible that a Mason designed the dollar without realizing that it spells out those letters, but I'm simply curious. Also, you say that this is just an accident. How do you know? Is this a regular thing in masonry? Are there actual symbols similar to the above mentioned and this isn't one that you've been told about? Or perhaps you aren't specifically told that this, that, and the other are not symbols (and to let the rest of us know).

What these guys fail to realize is that our jobs and personal lives ALWAYS come before masonry. Someone wouldn't run the risk of losing his job in order to benefit or impress the fraternity. That's unnecessary and absurd. While there are some fanatical masons who add symbolism to their art, this isn't a trait of the fraternity as a whole. Mostly, masons keep their symbolism to themselves and to their Craft.

My advise to you is this: Keep a level head and form your own opinions based on proof and logic, not heresay and circumstance. Realize that masonry is nothing more than a worldwide fraternity that teaches its members valuable life lessons. It's power comes from the values it instills in its members, not from politics, economics or satanism. Conspiracy theory can make a fascinating story out of anything, but in the end the simplest explanation is the most believeable.

Sebatwerk, thank you. That was very well thought out. It's true, whether or not anything on the dollar has anything to do with masonry is irrelevant, I was just curious. Also, I make it a point to learn a lot about anything that I will presume to judge. That's why I'm here talking to you instead just passing along conspiracy information into my myspace and my websites. I could tie Scooby Doo to JFK's assassination if I were so inclined.
-T

Originally posted by ServoHahn
Sebatwerk, thank you. That was very well thought out. It's true, whether or not anything on the dollar has anything to do with masonry is irrelevant, I was just curious. Also, I make it a point to learn a lot about anything that I will presume to judge. That's why I'm here talking to you instead just passing along conspiracy information into my myspace and my websites. I could tie Scooby Doo to JFK's assassination if I were so inclined.
-T

Well I heard he will do anything for a Scoobysnack ?

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by ServoHahn
You know, there's a lodge within a few blocks of my apartment. I'm still doing legitamite research on Masonry, but I like this board because I can see arguments for and against. Usually the way I know that something is worthwhile is when those who are for it can tell me the cons of the particular subject. (In this case, you'd tell me some of the short comings of Masonry or some things that you're not proud of in regards to it) I'm not asking for anyone downplay their own brotherhood, but ANY instance of an attack against the Masons is vehemently defended by all of its members.

There are bad things about masonry. I've been a mason for less than a year, and I'm really very young (25) compared to other masons (average age of a mason is 70), so maybe I see masonry a little different than others. Regardless, the only problems I have with the Craft have more to do with the membership and its politics rather than anything having to do with masonry. But masonry really is a great thing that truly changes a person for the better (provided the person makes the effort to learn the mysteries of freemasonry). There's a great deal of respect given to the Craft by its members, and theres a very good reason for that.

I know there are a lot of crackpots out there... I've seen their websites. But there are still legitamite questions to be asked, and some questions are answered too quickly.

Some of the questions that people ask, or rather some of the accusations people make, offend us not just as masons, but as PEOPLE. That's why we jump all over the questions. We want there to be no doubt as to what the truth is.

There are legitmate questions about which are symbols and which aren't. For example, is it a coinsidence that there are thirteen letters in "annuit coeptis" and thirteen letters in "e pluribus unum", when there are so many other thirteens on the back (I wouldn't be surprised if there were thriteen items that could be counted to thirteen). I know there were thirteen original colonies, and that's why, but there are also a lot of other "thirteens" historically. I wonder if it was just a farce that "Jaques de Sade" was executed on (May?) Friday the 13th, 1314.

There is a lot of symbolism, but most conspiracy theorists are really staring too hard and seeing things that really aren't there. Accusations abound, and everytime a mason denies it and others agree, it's not because we're lying. It's because the person making the claim is REALLY truly wrong, yet nobody believes us.

In any case, I suggest that you not get wrapped up in the elaborate fairy tales that these guys have concocted. It's like an adlib that keeps getting added to all the time. Conspiracy theory can find foul play in anything, it's like staring at the clouds and seeing what you want.

Again, it's entirely possible that a Mason designed the dollar without realizing that it spells out those letters, but I'm simply curious. Also, you say that this is just an accident. How do you know? Is this a regular thing in masonry? Are there actual symbols similar to the above mentioned and this isn't one that you've been told about? Or perhaps you aren't specifically told that this, that, and the other are not symbols (and to let the rest of us know).

What these guys fail to realize is that our jobs and personal lives ALWAYS come before masonry. Someone wouldn't run the risk of losing his job in order to benefit or impress the fraternity. That's unnecessary and absurd. While there are some fanatical masons who add symbolism to their art, this isn't a trait of the fraternity as a whole. Mostly, masons keep their symbolism to themselves and to their Craft.

My advise to you is this: Keep a level head and form your own opinions based on proof and logic, not heresay and circumstance. Realize that masonry is nothing more than a worldwide fraternity that teaches its members valuable life lessons. It's power comes from the values it instills in its members, not from politics, economics or satanism. Conspiracy theory can make a fascinating story out of anything, but in the end the simplest explanation is the most believeable.

Why do freemasons never talk about the big conspiracy's that are happening?.

Originally posted by ThePunisher
Why do freemasons never talk about the big conspiracy's that are happening?.

Because it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they're not real. Freemasons have better things to waste their time on.

Originally posted by ServoHahn
I could tie Scooby Doo to JFK's assassination if I were so inclined.

That's EXACTLY my point. Anyone can twist facts and intrcacies around enough to suit their purpose, that's why conspiracy theory is inherently faulty. It doesn't require conclusive proof, only circumstance and an imagination.

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by ThePunisher
Why do freemasons never talk about the big conspiracy's that are happening?.

Because it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they're not real. Freemasons have better things to waste their time on.

How long have you been studying them?.

[edit on 15-3-2005 by ThePunisher]

Originally posted by ThePunisher

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by ThePunisher
Why do freemasons never talk about the big conspiracy's that are happening?.

Because it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they're not real. Freemasons have better things to waste their time on.

How long have you been studying them?.

[edit on 15-3-2005 by ThePunisher]

Studying what? Conspiracy theories? Depends on which ones you're talking about. Not as long as some, I'm sure. I'm pretty good at seeing through the B.S.. So once I do, I no longer waste my time with it.

Well, there is usually evidence that SOMETHING is up. The easiest way to come up with a conspiracy is when there are questions about the facts, or the facts straight up contradict the story. JFK's missing x-rays, for example, Lee Harvey Oswald killing himself in his cell before he could be questioned, his ties to CIA agents in Mexico... they all point to... something. I say it's Scooby Doo, but that's just my opinion. HOWEVER, no non-masons could claim to KNOW that Masons were or were not responsible for one event or the other because it's a fraternity with its own secret history. Regular college frats usually don't get much conspiracy attention because they're generally not as large, old, or integrated into the goverment as masonry. If you have secrets, you can't expect people not to be suspicious. There have been masons at the end of controversial events, but that doesn't mean that "the freemasons" were behind it... though how would anyone know?
Unfortunately, the nature of a conspiracy theory is that the more you deny, the more they believe.
-T

[edit on 15-3-2005 by ServoHahn]

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by ThePunisher

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by ThePunisher
Why do freemasons never talk about the big conspiracy's that are happening?.

Because it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they're not real. Freemasons have better things to waste their time on.

How long have you been studying them?.

[edit on 15-3-2005 by ThePunisher]

Studying what? Conspiracy theories? Depends on which ones you're talking about. Not as long as some, I'm sure. I'm pretty good at seeing through the B.S.. So once I do, I no longer waste my time with it.

"Because it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they're not real"

"Studying what? Conspiracy theories? Depends on which ones you're talking about.">>>>

?

[edit on 15-3-2005 by ThePunisher]

Originally posted by ServoHahn
Well, there is usually evidence that SOMETHING is up. The easiest way to come up with a conspiracy is when there are questions about the facts, or the facts straight up contradict the story. JFK's missing x-rays, for example, Lee Harvey Oswald killing himself in his cell before he could be questioned, his ties to CIA agents in Mexico... they all point to... something.

Uuuuuhhhhh... Lee Harvey Oswald was killed by Jack Ruby on live TV. What are you talking about?

In any case, circumstance is NOT evidence. Just because SOMETHING is up does not give people license to make up bizarre claims and accusations without any proof. Contradictions and inconsistencies are not conclusive evidence.

I say it's Scooby Doo, but that's just my opinion. HOWEVER, no non-masons could claim to KNOW that Masons were or were not responsible for one event or the other because it's a fraternity with its own secret history. If you have secrets, you can't expect people not to be suspicious.

But it's NOT secret! There have been THOUSANDS of exposes. Mason have admitted time and time again everything that goes on in lodge. It's only a secret to the people who keep insisting that it's secret when it's really obviously not.

Unfortunately, the nature of a conspiracy theory is that the more you deny, the more they believe.

And they keep believing even after reading tons of exposes by non-masons and ex-masons alike? After having their every question answered by numerous masons? After a while it gets to be a little ridiculous.

I've come the conclusion that some the anti-mason people on this board are acting the way they are just to get a rise out of the masons that frequent here. No logical or sane person would honestly believe the stuff they say/type. And a sane person certainly wouldn't put so many heartbeats into the subject for any reason other than to get a giggle out of it.

If you were actually a mason, you'd understand. But since some people just want to paint this ugly picture of us without a so much as a shred of evidence against, it seems logical that the only desired effect is to irritate masons.

Originally posted by scooter1369
I've come the conclusion that some the anti-mason people on this board are acting the way they are just to get a rise out of the masons that frequent here. No logical or sane person would honestly believe the stuff they say/type. And a sane person certainly wouldn't put so many heartbeats into the subject for any reason other than to get a giggle out of it.

A lot of the time, I agree. But every now and then there comes a clown who truly believe this stuff. It's beyond me.

Jack Ruby (Jacob Rubenstien) had seven birthdays? March 3, March 13, March 19, March 25, April 21, April 25, April 26, and June 23rd? It must have been dreadful to shop for him. But I stand by what I said. Lee Harvey Oswald hung himself in his cell... possibly aided by Scrappy or Shaggy.

Originally posted by ServoHahn
Jack Ruby (Jacob Rubenstien) had seven birthdays? March 3, March 13, March 19, March 25, April 21, April 25, April 26, and June 23rd? It must have been dreadful to shop for him. But I stand by what I said. Lee Harvey Oswald hung himself in his cell... possibly aided by Scrappy or Shaggy.

Where did you learn about Ruby's 7 birthdays? Oswald hund himself??? I thought Ruby shot him at court or the police station or something

thanks

Originally posted by ServoHahn
Jack Ruby (Jacob Rubenstien) had seven birthdays? March 3, March 13, March 19, March 25, April 21, April 25, April 26, and June 23rd? It must have been dreadful to shop for him. But I stand by what I said. Lee Harvey Oswald hung himself in his cell... possibly aided by Scrappy or Shaggy.

DUDE!! LEE HARVEY OSWALD WAS SHOT ON LIVE TV!! How can you not know this? EVERYBODY saw it. It's played over and over again all the time. What are you TALKING about!?!?

Am I missing the joke or something?

[edit on 16-3-2005 by sebatwerk]