Hate to see it, but FAKE NEWS attacking Bernie Sanders

a reply to: Grambler
Well, considering the largest growth in income has been in China, that kind of throws a wrench in your ideas. Regardless, China isn’t socialist, and neither was mao or the Soviet Union. The us claims to be democratic, and to support democracies around the world, and we all know that’s far from true as well. And please stop believing msm statistics about economic growth. They’re the same people who have been saying that our economy had recovered, that employment is 4.5%, and that trump colluded with Russians, and all are equally lies.

a reply to: Grambler
And I didn’t say were responsible for the whole world, I said we effect the whole world. Some areas more than others (the ones with resources our bankers want). And I guarantee you that we have a much stronger effect on much more of the world than any other nation by far, and little of it is positive, unless you live in Israel.

a reply to: pexx421

So now the stats about people being lifted out of poverty are lies.

So just to warp up.

1. every single country we can say was soclists that failed shouldnt be looked at; they failed cause evil capaitalists.

2. the numbers of people lifted out of poverty are lies and cant be looked at.

3. there is no example of a socialists country every succeeding that you can give.

BUT

4. We should endorse socialism because its the best system.

Got it.

Let me know when you can give an example of a socialist country that worked out.

a reply to: Grambler
So, just to WRAP up

You haven’t provided a single statistic or historical fact supporting your argument

You haven’t really put forth any argument at all other than “socialism is bad”

You haven’t even demonstrated that you know what socialism is other than main msm talking points (created by the bankers)

You haven’t refuted any of my statements about historical facts regarding us actions to destabilize governments other than “oh, so it’s all our fault” and other such disengenuous deflections.

Feel free to come back when you can even describe socialist policy and have some grasp of history not spoon fed to you by partisan hacks and memes. Seriously, every response you posited I swear I’ve seen on fb at some point.

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: Grambler


You haven’t provided a single statistic or historical fact supporting your argument

Yes I have. In fact I provided a source with exact numbers lifted out of poverty; you said we cant trust those stats.

You haven’t really put forth any argument at all other than “socialism is bad”

I have provided examples of what socialists countries have acheived, like starving millions of people in their own countries.

You haven’t even demonstrated that you know what socialism is other than main msm talking points (created by the bankers)

You employ the "no true scotsman" fallacy, where you shift definitions to exclude self proclaimed socialists countries that show it is a failure.

You havent provided one example of a good socialists state despite being asked repeatedly, and yet criticize the countries I define as socialist.

You haven’t refuted any of my statements about historical facts regarding us actions to destabilize governments other than “oh, so it’s all our fault” and other such disengenuous deflections.

You provided no evidence that outside destabilization was purely responsible for socialists states failures. heck you cant even point to one true socialist state.

You also didnt answer that all countries regardless of economic systems face pressures like these from their rivals. How come only the socialists state succumb to it, is their system so much weaker to these outside pressures?

Feel free to come back when you can even describe socialist policy and have some grasp of history not spoon fed to you by partisan hacks and memes. Seriously, every response you posited I swear I’ve seen on fb at some point.

When all else fails, claim I am just using memes.

You cant even provide one, just ONE example of a successful socialist state.

Same old tired argument from the socialist advocates; I define everything fgood in life as socialist, and everything bad as not socialist. See socialism is great!!!

a reply to: Grambler
Ok, then we need a definition of socialism. Let’s use the classical description, the original. It’s an economy where workers don’t pay taxes on their labors. Nor do companies who produce a product. Income taxes are only levied upon unearned income, as it should be, so that’s capital gains, rents, interest, and speculation.
Free market originally meant exactly this, a market free from interest, monopolies, and manipulation.
Next it’s a socialized banking system. The taxes collected are used only to facilitate the economy through infrastructure, education, and common defense.

So no; by it’s definition not a single country has been socialist. Largely because this system is so threatening to the banks that they unload their complete Arsenal even including us invasion ala Vietnam, to stop any nation starting on the path long before they even get close to being actual socialist. Then they point and say “look what socialism did to this country!” I will await and welcome a well thought out response.

Ah, well. One could hope.

originally posted by: pexx421
Ah, well. One could hope.

Sorry been busy

So basically you call free markets socialism

Ok fine

I am for limited government as well

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: Grambler
Seriously? You’re writing off the directed attempts of the US to overthrow a govt and economy? Their the foremost experts in the world on doing exactly that! They’ve perfected it, and almost every nation we’ve used it on, socialist, democratic or otherwise, has succumbed to it!

What a non argument! “Yup, it’s never her fault for getting raped, wearing those skimpy clothes. “

Drink that Kool-Aid brother and preach it loud and proud!

And feel free to provide any actual evidence you possess to back up your claims. I do find it odd you demand evidence from others but produce none of your own for your wild speculations.

a reply to: pexx421

You do realize Vietnam is a “communist” state...and was backed by China, another “communist” state, during the Vietnam war?

Socialism had nothing to do with it...

originally posted by: narrator

originally posted by: Carcharadon

originally posted by: pexx421
Bernie isn’t a communist, he’s a socialist. And y’all obviously don’t know the difference because you watch too much msm. And socialists don’t want free stuff, they want the money they work for rather than for it all to be taxed away. And if it is to be taxed away against their will, they want it spent on them rather than as free handouts to wealthy corporations who didn’t work for it.

He's a communist that hides his true beliefs behind the guise of socialism. Which is just a stepping stone to communism.

So you're psychic and know exactly what's going on in his head? That's cool, I've never met a psychic before.

To be fair in regards to a lot of the posts here, "Communism" didn't kill millions of people in China and Russia, Mao and Stalin did. The fact that they were communists didn't make them commit atrocities.
That's like saying John Wayne Gacy killed people because he was Catholic. Yes, he happened to be Catholic, but he was a horrible psychopath. Same as Mao and Stalin. They happened to be Communists, but they were psychopaths.

This isn't to say I'm pro-Communist. I'm definitely not a fan. However, in the interest of defending people who aren't here to defend themselves, Sanders definitely is not a Communist.

ETA: Also, saying Socialism is a stepping stone to Communism: So...Republicanism is just a stepping stone to Fascism then?

Hey bud you can believe what you want but it was Marx himself that wrote that Socialism is a stepping stone to the eventual implementation of Communism. It's pretty well documented and REALLY easy to find.

And Bern is a closet Commie. He went to the Soviet Union for his honeymoon and stayed in a Jewish collective called a Kibbutz.

That screams Communist. He has hidden it well but it sneaks out every once in a while and exposes him. Just listen to the idiot talk.

And sorry bud but Mao and Stalin most definitely killed 150 million in the name of their ideology. And no amount of dissembling can change that.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: Grambler that’s simply because you have no clue what socialism really is, and it’s likely the opposite of what you think. Our “capitalist” system is the most corrupt in the world, which few would deny, and it’s tentacles effect the whole world.

So our system is responsible for the world.

Though the world economy has grown sluggishly since the 2008 financial crisis, poverty has continued to fall. According to a new World Bank report, between 1990 and 2013, the number of people in extreme poverty (defined as less than $1.90 a day) fell by nearly 1.1 billion, even as the world’s total population expanded by nearly 1.9 billion.

Since 2008, too, the proportion of people in extreme poverty population has fallen steadily, from 17.8% to just 10.8% of the global population. In 2013 alone, 114 million people were lifted out of extreme poverty.

qz.com...

Shall we compare that to the socialists paradises of the soveit Union and maos china, where over 100 million people starved to death?

He really stepped in it on that one didn't he?

I love when people self-burn.

a reply to: Lab4Us
What I realize is Vietnam was actually nothing of the sort. They based their Declaration of Independence off of ours and wanted to copy our system. And when we green lighted France to invade they begged us for help. Then we invaded from fear they would turn towards socialism or communism, and we capitalists went on to massacre 2-4 million innocent people, who thought we were going to save them, in the name of fear of a different system.

originally posted by: Tempter
I might not agree with his political stance on many or most things, I believe Bernie to be an actual good person.

Wanna know how I know that?

www.celebritynetworth.com...

He's worth almost nothing for someone who has been an influential senator, representative and city mayor for most of his life.

Aka, NOT corrupt.

Thank you for that!! Really interesting.

a reply to: Grambler
Well, yes. But free market meaning the opposite of what you think it means. Now people think free market means free from govt regulations. Which essentially means freedom for banks, monopolies, etc to exploit as much as possible. If you paid attention my description is the opposite of that. It’s freedom from bank, rentier, and speculative exploitation. And this was the original definition of free market.

a reply to: Carcharadon
The person I’m listening to now is Michael Hudson. And he is the god son of Trotsky. So I’d imagine he knows what he’s talking about with socialism. At any rate, socialism is an economic model, not a political model, and I’d imagine you could have socialist democracies and socialist dictatorships just like capitalism or any other economic model. Umm, it’s easy to find, yes. So did you actually read das capital or anything by Marx, or did you just get snippets along with someone else’s, likely completely wrong, summary?

Lastly, I didn’t realize Jews were communist. I’d imagine Israel might have some kind of feeling about that comment. And yes, I know mao and Stalin killed 150 million. They were likely very bad people. Don’t see what that has to do with socialism.

a reply to: Lab4Us

You need evidence of what? That we overthrow and attempt to overthrow governments and install dictators friendly to us business and banks? Like Pinochet, sukharno, the duvaliers, the shah? It’s prettu standard policy and it’s well documented history. You can read anything by Noam Chomsky, Howard zinn, William Blum, those are good for starters. If you aren’t inspired to sit through a few hundred pages, just watch any interviews or talks with them on YouTube.