Sukhoi Su-57 Meta Thread

originally posted by: moebius
The primary benefits of a DSI are weight and cost savings.

Afaik it has marginal effect on performance. The F-16 DSI for example has only shown slightly better power at subsonic speeds.

It is probably more stealthy, requires less RAM I guess.

DSI is mainly aethetics.

More Su-57 news:

The Su-57 "will" be equipped with a Kinzhal like missile:

www.ruaviation.com...

The Su-57 got an update to its stealth coating:

www.ruaviation.com...

With limited number of airframes I think they will just use the Su57 as a test platform for future more mature airframes.Unless they can get their engines up to spec.Wishful thinking..

a reply to: Blackfinger

I'm pretty down on the SU-57 and think they have decided to shoot the program in the head due to funding constraints. If they have, they will use the Su-57 as a testbed as you said. However, there comes a point where the farther you fall behind in tech, the worse things get: at some point it starts becoming a cold start again and that's...an enormous hurdle to get over these days.

However, let's keep an open mind and let's wait and see.

I have been wrong before and will be again.

a reply to: anzha

They've made some serious leaps in a few areas and are a lot closer to on par with us than people realize. Those areas, right now, are more useful to them than the Su-57, because they're going to see a bigger return for far less money.

a reply to: Zaphod58
I agree there.Some things like Hypersonic missiles and Radar packs are something the USA really need to watch for.Im not sure if its better for them to scrap the engines and go with a clean sheet or continue battling on with what they have.

Russia is now stating they will place the next LRIP order of 13 Su-57 in 2020.

www.ruaviation.com...

a reply to: anzha

One of the aggressor squadron's F-16s will get the Su-57's paint scheme:

theaviationist.com...

a reply to: anzha

I'm loving the J-31 paint on the F-35.

a reply to: Zaphod58

They ought to take one of the earlier F-35s that they might have issues upgrading and paint it like J-31 for the aggressor squadron.

a reply to: anzha

That's like every F-35 so far! We don't need that many aggresors!

a reply to: RadioRobert

Piffle. The earliest ones were the ones that they were saying were going to be an issue with the software update and might not be combat coded.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: anzha

I'm loving the J-31 paint on the F-35.

That F35 looks bad ass

a reply to: anzha

Is that before or after the upgrade program development estimates went up from $4B to $11B+? That's just dev costs. Not reflected is the procurement cost for hardware/installation/update etc

Guesses for updates from 3F to 4.2 are around $30M per airframe. I think everything is already funded to 3F, including some TR2 packages as needed. I don't think they've decided on or finalized the third refresh pathway.

On topic, this is why the Russians are delaying production runs until they are ready. Why pay higher low-rate procurement costs for limited airframes you would need to completely update/reengine at substantial additional cost? Just save/defer that money until you're actually ready for full-rate production. Buys you more for less.

a reply to: RadioRobert

I don't think you will find anyone disagreeing that concurrency was a mistake, RR.

However, I don't think that's what the Russians are avoiding. I think they've been hit in the pocket book a bit too hard for too long.

a reply to: anzha

Russia is approaching the position we're hell bent on getting to, where they have lots of things to do and not enough money to do them.

originally posted by: anzha
a reply to: RadioRobert

However, I don't think that's what the Russians are avoiding. I think they've been hit in the pocket book a bit too hard for too long.

It's both. They have immediate needs and long-term needs and only so much money. They could probably pump out several dozen Su-57's a year, but why if you can't afford enough of them to meet immediate needs and you'll have to spend even more on upgrading them to a future standard in the not so distant future? I haven't expected FRP for a long-time, so I haven't been disappointed.

I still think there is going to end up being a redesign around the new engine. It's typically not as easy as plugging in (even though supposedly that is the goal). It likely needs more mass flow for the increased thrust numbers they are looking at. They are going to have the typical gremlins with the new engine and more problems when they move from hand-builds to mass produced ones. They are still doing work on the real 3D nozzles, which will result in some CG work because of the weights. Etc, etc.

I think most of the disappointment is from people who took the unrealistic "in-service" dates and marketing/ BS over the past few years seriously. They still want foreign investment so they are going to talk up whatever they can, but noone should have seriously believed they were headed for a 2018-date.

They just need money and time. I don't know that they can afford to start over again or wait on a new program. Probably 2022 before the design freezes for mass production. All the marketing BS/complaining about the time line isn't going to change anything between now and then. If it was having really serious issues, they wouldn't continue spending on LRIP until they had things nailed down. They have enough airframes to collect data and serve as test beds. What they need is enough to learn the quirks about operating them, identifying and developing fixes or workarounds for the problems that pop up in operations that don't get identified during DemVal, developing tactics, etc Then when they've got it more or less frozen, they can start buying them en masse.

We're still in (largeish) LRIP lots and JAST/JSF is three decades old!

It's not a new bird, just a new paint scheme. Nifty detail on the tail there.