$15 Minimum Wage - Real World Results

originally posted by: Mahogany
Incredible. A thread actually telling people: hey people, you don't want to make more money, that's stupid. Everyone knows less money is better!

ATS has no bottom.

Of course, no one is going to make the connection that the douche owner exploited 35 employees and it was great for him. When protections for workers went in he went auto, at his choice, because he could not exploit workers any more.

With all of that, you want to tell people they're dumb for wanting higher wages.

These types of OPs and opinions come from 2 sides. 50K plus a year workers who feel superior to the low skill wage earners. They want to protect their quality of life without reguard to the useless low income employees. They imagine that anyone can move up and make more money and that these worthless people are not trying hard enough. They fail to see that the number of available jobs and the percentage of higher wage jobs makes their argument impossible and irrelevant.

The second is the low wage earners who are simply not educated enough to understand that no one in a developed country who is working full time should need any government assistance. And that there is plenty of money in the system for them
to live comfortable lowere middle class lifestyles.

The rich will pay as little as possible. The higher the unemployment the more control the wealthy have over wages. It's a vicious system that has allowed 1% of the population to own 50% of the world and degrade even developed nations workers to slave like conditions.

You will never win an argument with the 1st group. They simply lack the cognitive ability to see past their own situation. The 2nd group can be educated and when they become educated the world will change.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: toysforadults

Imagine not being able to find a job at minimum and needing money to make ends meet, so you work at what you can because you don't want to stoop to welfare.

Those people exist you know. In fact, quite a few of the illegal aliens in this country do this although many have kids who do collect full benefits from welfare so they double dip.

That is solid logic from the perspective of one person.

But on the economy wide scale, the total number of jobs doesn't go up when we eliminate minimum wage.

Once people are accepting a wage that only pays for basic food and shelter, there is no demand for anything other than basic food and shelter.

Once basic food and shelter is all our economy produces, those are the only jobs.



It's a "goldilocks" situation. If the poridge is too hot, she burns her mouth. If it is too cold, her tongue is freezing.

If the unskilled wage gets too high, then we get inflation. (Because the economy is trying to produce more than it is able to produce.)

If the unskilled wage gets too low, we've got the aforementioned under-production problem.



If you let the market decide, it will pretty much always go for the "too low" option. That's because of a problem even Adam Smith (the guy who came up with free market economics) acknowledged. It's called "market power". When one side of a negotiation has more freedom to "walk away" than the other.

originally posted by: Wildbob77
People need to realize that unskilled minimum wage jobs are going to be automated.

If politicians or others force the wage up, then they will be automated sooner.

I read one article that said something to the effect that we will lose 50% of entry level positions in the next 20 years.

If you don't have skills, get them or you will be replaced by a machine

"Unskilled" changes too. Merely operating a computer used to be a "skilled" job at one time. Now everyone knows how.

Instead of cleaning toilets at a hotel, unskilled workers of tomorrow will oversee a crew of robots that cleans toilets.

Just like how ditch diggers today don't dig ditches. They flag traffic while a machine digs the ditch.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: toysforadults

here's what I think would wake you up, everyone who works in the supply chain should go on strike and refuse to work for less than $25 an hour. when you shelves stop getting stocked your perspective will change on the value those jobs provide to you and your family

and remember, if you're not willing to accept something you shouldn't be talking others into doing what you yourself wouldn't be doing

Can I mow your lawn for 200 bucks? That is what I think I'm worth, my time...

If the lawn is about 3 acres with some obstacles, that isn't unreasonable. The cost to mow a lawn is determined by overhead costs, not really what you think you are worth.

I don't touch them for less than 50$ per mow, no more than an hr.


I can make more money in 1 day than most people make all week working a minimum wage job.

if companies can automate, they will....it doesn't matter what the "wage" of the worker, or who they are. if you run a business, and you can automate to save labor costs, it's done....one other axiom of business, you only hire labor when it is absolutely necessary to make more profits....that's it.

The power currently is to tilted toward one side and in capitalism, the power should be balanced between all involved.

The lobbyists have all the power and they shipped millions of jobs overseas in order to make bank. The consequences of that is stagnant wages here. So, in comes welfare to make up for the loss. Then the moneychangers whine about that, so now we need to bring those jobs back.

As they say, there is no free lunch. The cost of living is rising, housing is to expensive. There are people that are living out of their vehicles and working and is totally unacceptable. If it were to go for to long, you would see millions homeless and that would be enough people to some major damage to government and business.

Some will say, if the ones in these jobs want to make more money, they should gain more skills, but that ignores the jobs they are doing and the jobs available they can move to.

The jobs they are doing will not go away so the same problem still exist.
The Employers did not create the jobs for make work for low income people.

The real problem with this comes into play when you realize these are the majority type of jobs since we are now a service economy. It is a systemic issue rather than an individual problem.

Which is why we are trying to bring jobs back from China, and we will know if it was successful when wages on the low end start to rise.

originally posted by: Mahogany
Incredible. A thread actually telling people: hey people, you don't want to make more money, that's stupid. Everyone knows less money is better!

ATS has no bottom.

Of course, no one is going to make the connection that the douche owner exploited 35 employees and it was great for him. When protections for workers went in he went auto, at his choice, because he could not exploit workers any more.

With all of that, you want to tell people they're dumb for wanting higher wages.

Nobody's dumb for wanting higher wages. What's dumb is expecting it simply by virtue of existing.

You want higher wages? Make yourselves a more attractive investment to prospective employers.

If someone else (or a robot) can do the same job to the same standard but for less money, then that's pretty much solid empirical proof that your time isn't worth as much as you think it is.

The choice is to either up your game, or sit on your ass and whine about it. Of course, the people with the motivation and mindset to up their game... are too busy doing it to whine about it. That says all that needs to be said about the people who have the time to whine.

a reply to: EvillerBob

There is no free lunch, when you ship jobs overseas to make bank, someone has to pay for that.

originally posted by: eXia7

If the lawn is about 3 acres with some obstacles, that isn't unreasonable. The cost to mow a lawn is determined by overhead costs, not really what you think you are worth.

If the job takes me longer than an hour I want more than the 200 bucks... Isn't that what we are talking about in many of these posts where people dictate their worth and not what the job is worth? I hire you to cook fries and now I owe you a "living wage" which is an extremely grey area as to what people see as need and not just desired luxury.

My view would be enough money that a group of people can share living costs under one rent. That is how the vast majority of the world lives.

Most young people's view of a minimum living wage is single living with a place to themselves, a car, an up to date phone, computer/internet, 10 coffees per week, eat out mostly, current fashion, so on and so on. They then say hey I need 25 bucks an hour, and I say no sh@t if you are talking to live like this.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

My view would be enough money that a group of people can share living costs under one rent. That is how the vast majority of the world lives.

We do not care about the rest of the world.
The wealthy globalists do though, while they sit in their ivory towers while everyone is living 10 to a room.
The trajectory we are on and one you support would give more power to the globalists.

The globalists say to you, we will bring in Universal Healthcare since that is how the rest of the world does it.

March 11, 2019

FYI: Whole Foods is reducing worker's hours, because parent company Amazon raised the minimum wage to $15 an hour.

www.fastcompany.com...