$15 Minimum Wage - Real World Results

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: toysforadults

here's what I think would wake you up, everyone who works in the supply chain should go on strike and refuse to work for less than $25 an hour. when you shelves stop getting stocked your perspective will change on the value those jobs provide to you and your family

and remember, if you're not willing to accept something you shouldn't be talking others into doing what you yourself wouldn't be doing

Can I mow your lawn for 200 bucks? That is what I think I'm worth, my time...

I know a guy who might pay that for about a third of his land. Probably could negotiate more if you mow more. Probably even more so if you bale it as well.

originally posted by: gallop
a reply to: Edumakated

Well then it is about forcing people to work for peanuts.

Do you not think, for one moment, that any company not willing to pay minimum wages would also not jump at the chance of profiting by automation? That's the future.. everything mundane that can be automated WILL be automated.

That means even high paying wages, once it is worked out how to automate it.

So should a brain surgeon be paid $3 an hour, because a machine can do it for free, once the technology is there?

That is what you're saying.. Bottom line is, if you expect people to work, you should guarantee them a wage. Not dictate to them, that they're lucky a machine has not taken the job.

I have no idea what the mindset of people against minimum wage is, but it's only going to end badly for society... enjoy your google car wash, instead of fighting against it.

Should a brain surgeon be paid $3/hr if a machine can do it for free? Umm.... if the machine can do a good enough job then yes that brain surgeon won't be making jack squat in the future.

Yes, there is always a progression towards automation, but increasing wages just makes that progression faster because higher wages make the ROI of capital investment in technology that much greater.

Car washes are labor intensive. The best car washes are not automated because they have yet to build a automatic car wash that does as good of a job as three or four guys with rags. While the car wash guys may work hard, the fact remains it is low skilled labor (with a large supply of willing workers) and thus does not warrant high wages. Artificially increasing those wages just accelerates the elimination of the jobs entirely.

If you raise minimum wage to fifteen bucks an hour, then all services and products will go up meaning that cost of living will rise sharply in the area and that will also cause companies to replace people with technology or opt to import everything. As for the lower and middle class, their money will not go as far, businesses overhead will rise for supplies and services so they will not be able to give their workers a raise and be competitive in the market. This means everyone goes into serfhood, only the rich get richer. There will not be nearly as many people getting any assistance anymore, the employees who got the jump to fifteen bucks an hour will not qualify for free health insurance anymore. They will not qualify for foodstamps or even some college tuition assistance programs.

Longlivity will not get you more wages, companies will have to be competitive. People who slack off for fifteen bucks an hour will be canned as soon as they mess up, someone will be able to replace them quickly. I see major flaws in people's perception. These franchise businesses do not make the owner a lot of money, they have franchise fees, business loans, and supplies to buy and half the time they are open they barely make enough to pay the people working. When it is busy, yes they do make money but overall the costs of doing business lead to not so great of a return. I know lots of people who own businesses and I know they will never be rich but they feel good that they can supply income to their workers. They also have to supply reasonable prices to the people who buy their products and services.

The young who want this fifteen bucks an hour do not know how it works, there is no free ride in this world. If you go to get a malt somewhere, raising the wage will bring the price from three fifty up to five bucks. Remember, everyone along the line is going to get a raise, the workers who have been working for the farmer for ten years and are getting fifteen bucks with all their experience are not going to be satisfied with only the same as the rookie coming in. They will want twenty and all of the sudden the price of the malt will go up half. Look at California, everything is expensive there, you can get more here for ten bucks an hour than you can there for fifteen bucks an hour.

Another answer that employers are doing when it comes to minimum wage hikes: Slash hours.

Walmart has been doing this for years with their hourly employees. Majority of people hired now tend to be hired on a "part time" basis, that way Walmart isn't required to give them 40 hours.....which they don't do with their full time employees now.

I know this as my wife who's worked for them for 25 years experiences this all the time. They slash her hours, sometimes going as low as 32 hours. Normally what she does for that is put in for PTO (Personal Time Off) which she gets plenty of as a veteran full time employee, and because she unable to take a lot of time off anyway, so it compensates for the loss of hours.

So you'd think: Well then they will not get as much work done, right?

Wrong.

What happens is: they expect the same amount of work to get done, only in a shorter amount of time and spread their people thin. Can't hack it? Yer fired! Always some other person willing to do the job they can hire.

So they can pass all the laws they want to raise minimum wage.....the employers will just either automate, or will simply reduce the amount of hours they give the employee, and in cases they can't: pass the cost on to the consumer.....which tends to be the employee.....who will now be paying more for stuff, with less hours.

Fat lot of good that wage hike did, huh?

a reply to: Edumakated

I think the progressive policies are quite intended.


Now (per your example) there are 32 additional people reliant on government.


Their 15/hour policy worked just as they wanted it to.

There are some things that are not worth $15/hour (+burden) production costs. What this means is that an employer will either look for ways to reduce the total labor cost (fringes), or will close shop.

This does not mean that some people are not under paid.

originally posted by: toysforadults
it's funny watching you guys make a free market argument but not actually defending that exact point, you know it's a fake economy propped up by fake dollars

don't expect free market principles to apply in that situation because they don't

Since you ignored my last post, here's what you just can't seem to grasp.

There are HUNDREDS and THOUSANDS of people, hard-working people, who are doing GREAT.!

People who are doing GREAT!!!

So, in this FANTASY world that you have created in your head, how do you account for this?

They don't whine, or bitch, or moan.

Why is that?

Because they understand. They know that no one in the world is more in charge of their destiny than THEMSELVES.

But, you're just so pitiful. It ain't YOUR FAULT, right?

The MAN held you down.

Yeah. That's the ticket!

I'm sorry. I didn't take you and a gaggle of other non-hackers to raise.

I've got other priorities. My own folks.

I swear to God, how do you people even learn to speak? Words, I mean, not pleas for help.

I work at a job that is unionized and the benefits are amazing. I'm more than happy to pay the inexpensive union dues in order to receive the benefits that I do.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I work at a job that is unionized and the benefits are amazing. I'm more than happy to pay the inexpensive union dues in order to receive the benefits that I do.

Naturally. Of course!

Do they wipe your a$$ when you poop?

Sorry. Dumb question.

Of course they do.

Do they diddle the MRS (or MR, I don't judge) for you too?

a reply to: MteWamp

No, but I do get sick leave, paid vacation, paid holidays (double time and a half if I work holidays), stress leave, time and a half for anything over 8 and a half hours a day, affordable health insurance, dental insurance, they also require a pay raise after so many hours worked. I've gotten nearly a $3 raise per hour since I started here just over a year ago.

Those things are only possible because the union makes them possible. When I moved I stayed in the same field of work, I didn't have those benefits with my non-unionized job before moving. My previous job provided me a paycheck and insurance that cost twice as much as it does now and that's all, so yeah, I love having a union to back me up.

originally posted by: toysforadults

Its really easy if no one is willing to mow your lawn for what you offer your lawn want get cut

Poof and just like that you have no leverage


That's why unions work. Let me guess you arent pro union?

If you are not willing to pay me what I feel I'm worth why should I pay you 25 bucks per hour to stock selves?

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: TheLead

making no money and taking home 150 a week is the same damn thing you will require government assistance regardless and government assistance in most states is worth 21+ an hour

stop trying to talk people into working for less is a disgusting argument

Gov assistance is worth 21 an hour????
Jesus, I work 60 hours a freakin week for 21 an hour.

Time to change things up a bit. Big time

a reply to: caterpillage

You might want to check on it first. It varies from state to state.

Also, quitting your job could be problematic.

originally posted by: RealityIsAbsurd

I know a guy who might pay that for about a third of his land. Probably could negotiate more if you mow more. Probably even more so if you bale it as well.

No hay field..just simple grass, no bigger than 1/4 acre, or we need to renegotiate. I'm not bagging it either...

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I work at a job that is unionized and the benefits are amazing. I'm more than happy to pay the inexpensive union dues in order to receive the benefits that I do.

I work non-union and my benefits are amazing... You sure you can't get the same benefits without a union?

a reply to: Xtrozero

In my line of work? Nope.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

In my line of work? Nope.

You on the east coast? Seems companies can't work with their employees on that side...

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The benefits, not necessarily. It depends on the employer, and the state.

Of course, if your employer does government work, in most states, it means that you will receive the equivalent rate (+ union fringe costs) if you are not a member of a union. One reason government projects cost so much.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Transplanted from Georgia to Montana.