Macron deploys 89 000 strong security force for riots livestream

a reply to: Wide-Eyes

You guys still pay thousands of dollars. It's called taxes. Just because no one consolidates that into a neat packaged bill for you and labels it "health care," you guys delude yourselves into thinking you aren't actually paying for it. It's cute until you see these riots and get so puzzled over why that is.

a reply to: ketsuko

What has paying tax and receiving healthcare have to do with these protests?

a reply to: SprocketUK

I never said I agree with Macron either, but this is still going too far. Violence and not even a chance to talk about it because there is nobody to talk to. And to claim the violence is some heroic fight against injustice is just insane. There are right and left wing thugs using this to cause havoc for nothing really. There's nothing to be accomplished because it is fundamentally undemocratic to not talk about the issue.
I mean they got hijacked from both sides and those who'd have some valid points to make are threatened if they want to step up and articulate some demands. Meanwhile they're not even sure what they want because everybody is on the streets for something else. They want more, they want it all, meanwhile the French economic force is already struggling, because (like it or not it's a reality) they can't compete with other locations for companies to produce in with their high salary for (exaggerated) 25 hours work per week.
Macron won't be able to make their phantasies come true and if they'd kill him it wouldn't make France more attractive for global players.

a reply to: Peeple


They told Macron and his goons already.
All they got was a Gallic shrug and a tax rise.
There comes a point when people get tired of being ignored and decide to act.
Sure there are some nuts hanging onto their coat tails but that doesn't invalidate their cause and also, if they hadn't brought this to the streets of Paris, would you and the others living your lives, unaffected by these people's suffering even care? No, you would carry on voting for Macron et al without the slightest thought.
At least this way, they have shown the world that there is a problem and made others, who wouldn't care, feel a little bit of what they are feeling.

a reply to: stosh64


They will need a dohnut after that.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: ketsuko

What has paying tax and receiving healthcare have to do with these protests?

Because they are over an ever increasing tax burden. Part of that tax burden is to pay for their social programs like health care.

I've said before -- it all adds up until you get to the point where what you have to pay for squeezes out your ability to pay for the other things you need to live your life.

In this case, the tax that is breaking the camel's back is a gas tax, but that one tax by itself wouldn't be too bad if it weren't built on top of all the others.

a reply to: ketsuko

I disagree with that, this is about the widening gap between rich and poor, the tax is the talking point in media to detract from what's really causing the anger. Only Americans think socialised healthcare is a problem.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

A lot of Americans realize that a socialized form of healthcare could work very well, we just also realize our government would screw it up so bad we'd be in for a world of hurt.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: ketsuko

I disagree with that, this is about the widening gap between rich and poor, the tax is the talking point in media to detract from what's really causing the anger. Only Americans think socialised healthcare is a problem.

The gap is caused because most of the money these people make is taxed out from under them for various reasons/programs.

Any one of those programs by itself wouldn't necessarily be bad, but add them all together and you have a situation where only the wealthiest can afford to live. Anyone else only gets poorer because they're busy losing all their money to the social programs they may not be poor enough to qualify for even as they pay for them.

It's the old phrase "nickel and dimed to death" in action.

A lot of Americans realize that a socialized form of healthcare could work very well, we just also realize our government would screw it up so bad we'd be in for a world of hurt.

This too.

Before you take over another entire sector of the US economy we are forced to depend on (like education). Make the ones you are already responsibly for (like education), the universal envy of the world.

And stop telling us it's all a matter of money because we already pay more per student than most other 1st world nations and many of them outperform us.

a reply to: ketsuko

How much tax do you think they pay, as I understand it it not significantly different to what you guys pay in the U.S or what we pay here in OZ.

a reply to: caterpillage

Governments are not great at managing money in a way that benefits the plebs, they seem very good at managing it for the rich though interestingly enough.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: caterpillage

Governments are not great at managing money in a way the benefits the plebs, they seem very good at managing it for the rich though interestingly enough.

That's right on the mark

One thing I have noticed over the years is every time a government of whatever persuasion decides to make a nationalised industry or service "More efficient" they end up spending more money and giving worse service. I am sure it has nothing to do with the private companies they are forced to outsource to that just happen to have friends and relatives of MP's on the board. No sireee.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: ketsuko

How much tax do you think they pay, as I understand it it not significantly different to what you guys pay in the U.S or what we pay here in OZ.

France has the highest tax burden of any OECD country.

a reply to: SprocketUK

No of course not, integrity and honesty are the benchmark for all of government and business alike.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Government has the deepest pockets. There is not incentive on their part to keep the costs down. If they don't have enough, they can always go to the tax laws to take more.

These riots are the first time in a long time we've seen people up in arms over an ever increasing tax burden.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: ketsuko

How much tax do you think they pay, as I understand it it not significantly different to what you guys pay in the U.S or what we pay here in OZ.

France has the highest tax burden of any OECD country.

The tax rate of 45% is for those earning over 150 000 euros, do you think they are the ones struggling?

For comparison those earning between 25000 and 70000 are taxed 30% is that really any different to what you pay?

a reply to: ketsuko


SPOT on!!!

Government has the deepest pockets. There is not incentive on their part to keep the costs down. If they don't have enough, they can always go to the tax laws to take more.

www.nytimes.com...

“We are overtaxed,” she said. “There are taxes on everything, gas.” “At the Élysée,’’ she added, referring to the presidential palace, ‘‘they spend 300,000 euros on carpeting, 10,000 a month for the hairdresser.’’

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: ketsuko

How much tax do you think they pay, as I understand it it not significantly different to what you guys pay in the U.S or what we pay here in OZ.

France has the highest tax burden of any OECD country.

The tax rate of 45% is for those earning over 150 000 euros, do you think they are the ones struggling?

For comparison those earning between 25000 and 70000 are taxed 30% is that really any different to what you pay?

You forget. We don't pay VAT taxes on everything. We don't pay a VAT of 20% on everything we buy in addition to losing our income tax out of our pay. There are also a LOT of other taxes independent of income taxes.

You don't think the gas is $7/gal naturally do you?

a reply to: ketsuko

No I don't, for Comparison here in oz we pay around $6 per gallon. But we don't pay a big chunk for medical insurance either... I think you will find its quite relative what we all pay out in cost of living. In a nutshell us plebs are getting royally #ed up the ass.