Should irresponsible people have to suffer?

originally posted by: olaru12
I feel blessed to be able to give money to whom ever I choose for what ever reason. I probably would have bought those kids some dog food.

However I respect bums on the road with a sign more than cyber beggars. If you have a phone, tablet or laptop...sell that to get home.

This guy!

a reply to: JAGStorm

It's the trials in life and how you deal with them and teach you who you are. If you get bailed out every time you run into a crisis, then you never learn what you can take and what resources you actually do have as a person.

We used to call it building character which is a lost art in this country and culture. Dealing with trials like this one and doing it directly teaches an entire skillset that is valuable and will be good for an entire lifetime, but these days, too many are preoccupied with how no one should deal with the horrors of stress and mental anguish.

It's sad really. There are just some things you cannot learn without experiencing them, and yes, it does hurt.

In the blink of an eye anyone of us could be in a similar situation or worse regardless of how responsible we are. These people will survive by any means neccessary. At least they're not forcing anyone to give them money, unlike our government.

A UBI can be implemented which replaces all federal social/welfare programs without raising taxes, while making the federal government smaller & eliminating the minimum wage. Criteria can be established for one to be eligible to receive consecutive year's UBI, like a requirement to have health insurance.

originally posted by: JBIZZ
In the blink of an eye anyone of us could be in a similar situation or worse regardless of how responsible we are. These people will survive by any means neccessary. At least they're not forcing anyone to give them money, unlike our government.

A UBI can be implemented which replaces all federal social/welfare programs without raising taxes, while making the federal government smaller & eliminating the minimum wage. Criteria can be established for one to be eligible to receive consecutive year's UBI, like a requirement to have health insurance.

And how is implementing a UBI not another means of trying to avoid the problem? You subsidize bad behavior and poor decision making by not allowing people to realize the consequences of their actions.

Generally speaking, as much as possible, people should suffer those consequences short of serious injury and death. Sometimes, it's the only way they learn, and it builds character and teaches you how to make do in ways you never thought you could.

My parents had their lean years of picking up cans and bottles in order to make a meal. My husband and I had our lean years where we had to do similar to make ends meet. Those are skills we'll never forget and they make stretching to make do far less scary than it might otherwise be.

Just this afternoon, our son came home without his second pair of gloves on the year swearing he had no idea where they might be. It will be too cold to let him suffer the chill tomorrow while we wait for him to check lost and found (assuming he remembers), so emptied his piggy bank and took him to store and made him buy his own third pair. We told him he better learn how to take care of these because if he loses them, he loses his own money, and I'll be reminding him to check lost and found tomorrow as he hits the bus.

These are lessons on why your income is precious and by extension the things you buy with it, not because they're things but because you work hard for what you earn. Imagine how much less valuable it all is if someone just hands it to you.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
So yesterday on another site I visit, there were two kids. Late teens early 20s.
They were asking people to give them money for a plane ticket and their three dogs back home.

Here is the story. They came with their three dogs to live with some friends. After two months the friends bailed and they only have a couple of days to move out with their dogs. They have no money, no place to stay, and now found out they are pregnant.

They were asking for people to give them money through gofundme to fund their airfare/ trip back home with their three dogs
One of their moms has sent money but it isn't enough.

Stories like these really bother me. What are two young people without funds doing with three dogs. Totally irresponsible.
Why aren't they using birth control. If they can't take care of themselves or their dogs or basic housing, why are they reproducing?
I just hate that they are just running back home to Mom and dad. Where I live there are now hiring signs EVERYWHERE most places pay significantly more than minimum wage. Temporary housing is available. I think the airfare part bothers me too, the place they are trying to go to is only 4 hours from here. You would think two able bodied adults would be able to save enough for a rental car.

I 100% guarantee that you are I will be supporting their child in the very near future.

I'm just so sick of It's not my fault generation, and I want everyone else to fix it for me generation.

For whatever supposed reason:

Whom would want others to have less than themselves?

What does judging them have to do with that?

a reply to: Nothin

It has nothing to do with wanting or not wanting others to have less than you do and everything to do with knowing why some people do have less than you do -- because they make very stupid/poor decisions with what they do have.

My sister and brother-in-law are like this, not as bad, but bad enough. They've been bailed out by my parents multiple times, and they've been warned that there is an accounting list being kept against whatever inheritance is coming. Somehow, I suspect that I will have to refight this battle when the time comes even though theoretically they know I know about all this.

I don't plan on bailing her out, and the only reason they've been bailed thus far is because of my nephews who are rapidly growing and will start leaving home in the next few years.

a reply to: ketsuko

Understand what you mean, about seeing things as unbalanced.

Personally am uneasy with these kinds of thoughts, and put them under the 'microscope' when they 'float-by'.

Have made more than my share of: 'very stupid/poor decisions'.

So just feeling blessed about being able to greet you, and wish you a wonderful day!

For whatever supposed reason: Whom would want others to have less than themselves? What does judging them have to do with that?

Not sure how old you are, but it has nothing to do with wanting them to have less, it is ALL about wanting them to have more. I am 100% certain by giving them immediate "help" in the end we are really hurting them more.

And again, if you are on social media putting all your business out there asking me for my hard earned money, I am going to judge you. I'm pretty sure my mortgage, my auto company all judged me when before they decided to loan me money!

a reply to: Nothin

Have made more than my share of: 'very stupid/poor decisions'.

Most of us have, but what separates a lot of us from the people we're talking about is the ability to figure out how to get out of trouble without needing others to bail us out. And if we did need to be bailed out, we learned from the experience and made sure we were never put in that place again.

The ones we're talking about make bad choice after bad choice and seem to be incapable of learning from the experience either because the they never figure out that they were the ones who put themselves in trouble (blame others or outside agency for their own poor decisions which is very common these days) or because they are incapable of correctly deducing cause and effect or because they never master self-discipline and other things that prevent you from making bad decisions in the first place.

originally posted by: Fools


"Who made them this way?"

That question burns my mind. It doesn't matter who made them anyway. No one is putting a gun to their head to make bad decisions. What in the hell is wrong with you? Why don't you understand that if you make dumb decisions, you get dumb prizes. I have a 24 year old son that is looking at maybe 6 years in state prison. All along for about 6 years straight, every time I talked to him I told him that he was making bad decisions and would end up going to prison. Even with that advice, from me and many others, he kept on with his keeping on.

So, in a nutshell these idiots made themselves. I am ok with making that judgement.

The environment shapes the child.
If you see idiots and fools...... you form idiots and fools.
Of course you will deny it, after all your child is facing 6 years in prison.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: Fools


"Who made them this way?"

That question burns my mind. It doesn't matter who made them anyway. No one is putting a gun to their head to make bad decisions. What in the hell is wrong with you? Why don't you understand that if you make dumb decisions, you get dumb prizes. I have a 24 year old son that is looking at maybe 6 years in state prison. All along for about 6 years straight, every time I talked to him I told him that he was making bad decisions and would end up going to prison. Even with that advice, from me and many others, he kept on with his keeping on.

So, in a nutshell these idiots made themselves. I am ok with making that judgement.

The environment shapes the child.
If you see idiots and fools...... you form idiots and fools.
Of course you will deny it, after all your child is facing 6 years in prison.

And sometimes, despite your best efforts, people have to learn the hard way -- through experience. As a parent, your job is to demonstrate the best way to be, explain why over and over it is done one way and not the other, walk a child back to the root of his problems over and over if need be, etc.

But even then, sometimes, they still have to test your advice and guidance and learn for themselves why things are the way they are, meaning they will still touch the hot pot on stove despite being warned how hot it is. And when they get burned and you take care of it for them and settle them, you explain to them exactly how they got that burn and why and walk them back to the reason why you told them over and over not to do it in the first place!

Hopefully, the next time you tell them straight out not to do a thing to avoid bad consequences, they pay more attention. But kids being kids, they will always test those boundaries to some degree.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

For whatever supposed reason: Whom would want others to have less than themselves? What does judging them have to do with that?

Not sure how old you are, but it has nothing to do with wanting them to have less, it is ALL about wanting them to have more. I am 100% certain by giving them immediate "help" in the end we are really hurting them more.

And again, if you are on social media putting all your business out there asking me for my hard earned money, I am going to judge you. I'm pretty sure my mortgage, my auto company all judged me when before they decided to loan me money!

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.
Understand what you mean, about encouraging folks to help themselves.
We're all different, in many-splendid shades and colors of variations.

It is interesting to observe how cold-hearted corporations judge people, and a good reminder for us to aspire to do the exact opposite.

Enjoy observing young people whom are non-materialistic, and going with the flow of life, however she goes.
Am just a foolish old romantic, who marvels at the bohemian mindset, for whatever reason.

Am not able to tell with certainty, which of them are just unattached free-birds, and which are manipulating SOBs.
So: realizing that, am refraining from judgement, and helping when possible, sometimes.
But not on social media, for me.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Nothin

Have made more than my share of: 'very stupid/poor decisions'.

Most of us have, but what separates a lot of us from the people we're talking about is the ability to figure out how to get out of trouble without needing others to bail us out. And if we did need to be bailed out, we learned from the experience and made sure we were never put in that place again.

The ones we're talking about make bad choice after bad choice and seem to be incapable of learning from the experience either because the they never figure out that they were the ones who put themselves in trouble (blame others or outside agency for their own poor decisions which is very common these days) or because they are incapable of correctly deducing cause and effect or because they never master self-discipline and other things that prevent you from making bad decisions in the first place.

There's many differences between folks.
Should everyone be more like you?
How would you propose to get that done?

What would the options be?
Just accept people as they are, warts, bad habits, and all?
Just accept the parts that we agree with, and then try to force them to conform to the rest of our beliefs?
Just ignore them?

How can we be sure that our beliefs are righteous, and that others are deficient?