It Begins ... Part of the Green New Deal?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: ketsuko


This will get Trump elected in 2020.

Unbelievable. I mean, sure I use satire and mocked the left and said they wanted to raise taxes, but I never thought they'd be that stupid to come out of the gate with a tax increase.

Especially on the heels of the riots in France.

Do these retards think we don't follow European news?

The only voters who matter listen only to state approved sources and they haven't been covering that as far as I know. Or at least they haven't been addressing the real reasons for it or the fact that smaller municipalities outside of Paris have been going so far as to block off roads leading in or out ... things like that. I've seen that in some sources.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Don't look too hard, but there are two Republicans in the cosponsors to this. So-called moderates like to look green.

Carbon Tax ... the day liberals created a new way to separate the Haves from the Have-Nots.

The Haves will pay their carbon tax ... the Have-Nots will be sitting in the dark.

a reply to: DanDanDat

They tax you for dying, but if they do this, they can tax you for being alive too.

a reply to: ketsuko

FL Congressman Ted Deutch wrote a Carbon Tax Bill.

He wants us to riot like France is doing right now.

You left out one thing. A trading exchange for carbon tax credits so they can make more money on Wall street.

originally posted by: toysforadults
Weren't the French protesting something similar? Gas tax?

Agenda 21?

This is the most detailed explanation:

www.reuters.com...

It's a carbon tax. But they also have to pay off a 5.9 billion euro debt renewable energy related debts to EDF

"The state planned to pay state owned EDF 1.6 billion euros in 2018 and the rest of the 4.6 billion euro debt by 2020.
The company had been forced to buy power at subsidized tariffs from renewable energy producers. The difference between subsidized and market prices was supposed to be financed via the so-called CSPE tax that power users pay.
But as renewable energy capacity grew more quickly than the CSPE tax, the shortfall was financed by EDF and built up as debt in its balance sheet."

www.reuters.com...

This is like a Venezuela, Italy and Haiti situation. The people are being forced to pay higher taxes to pay off a multi-billion dollar debt that the corporations and government policy wonks created. Probably the power users figured out how to dodge the CPSE tax.

You absolutely need a car in rural France. Each village is typically 3 miles away from each other. Roads don't have pavements, street or even traffic lights. Just to get to a supermarket or doctor, you may need to go through several villages. You are lucky if a bus goes through your village once a day. Sometimes there is a morning/evening service for workers, but that's it. You also need diesel since there is a period of cold weather for a month in December.

There are alternatives to diesel cars. These are small electric "SMART cars" designed to let pensioners have mobility to get to supermarkets but not be a danger to other road users. They have an upper speed of 30mph and a battery that lasts a few hours. It's enough to take a couple of shopping bags home.

I could see the French going back to riding horses or Amish style horse-and-buggy modes of transport, perhaps solar powered cars, some which are going to be coming out in 2019:

www.weforum.org...

a reply to: ketsuko

Now this thing shouldn't ever see the light of day. I'd be surprised if it passes the House even under Democrat control, but this is how they think. This is how much they want to control your life.

And indeed in addition to collecting up vast sums of money unto themselves, its all about control; controlling practically every aspect of everyone's lives.

Legislative proposals like this showcase the horror that is the US House of Representin'. A place where nought but bad ideas see the light of day and the worse the idea, the more they inflame the passions of those who hate "we the people" to push these type proposals.

A truth of this and the reason such a proposal was shot down, even in a leftist domain like Washington State, is that its dead on arrival because it would essentially terminate the US economy with extreme prejudice.

a reply to: ketsuko

Don't look too hard, but there are two Republicans in the cosponsors to this. So-called moderates like to look green.

Which is precisely why the Republicans, as a "Political Party" are dead to me. Probably something like over half of them are Democrats in brown Republican suits. They are simply, political whores! They have no core beliefs except their incessant need to raise money to get re-elected.

a reply to: ketsuko

Yeah, this bill sucks. Here is the full (pdf) text of it.

I ran some calcs. Based on the $15 per ton carbon tax the first year, that's a gasoline tax of about 12 cents per gallon. That $15 per ton price goes up, of course, by $10 per year, unless someone needs more money, then it can go up by $15 per year. So in 5 years, it'll be between $55 and $75 per ton, which is between 43 and 59 cents per gallon. And that's just the combustion from the gas at an 87 octane rating... the bill also talks about the entire energy use making that gas, so it'll likely be more.

Diesel costs should be similar, but I didn't run calcs.

Now, if we consider that diesel fuel is used to transport the food we eat, that will equate to inflation there, as well as anything else that gets transported. You can replace the phrase "everything else that gets transported" with "everything else" and still be fairly accurate. Inflation, here we come!

Anthony Watts is off on one detail. The bill does not say you give up any benefits by having more than two children, just that any additional children don't get you any more.

The bill reads like another income tax scheme. Under the present income tax, every working individual gives the US government a loan equal to about half of their refund for 6 months. The interest alone on that amount is staggering. This bill does the same thing: it taxes the oil producers (who will simply raise their prices) and puts that tax into a fund. After a few percent is pulled out and the interest is collected, whatever is left is a tax free refund distributed to everyone who files taxes. Get that? A tax-free refund to everyone who files taxes. Free money! And you don't have to work to get it. Can anyone say "guaranteed income"? I thought you could.

That's what this is: a way to get people used to getting free money from the IRS whether you work or not, in the process get more money in the government tills, and restrict energy. The cost? Just higher inflation, less jobs, and less freedom. There also seems to be a backdoor in exemptions for US territories, letting them import oil and transfer it to the US proper without any taxation... so all new oil imports will come through territories (if I am reading this right).

Feds: "Hey! Here's a free dollar!"
Us: "Great! Thank you!"
Feds: "That'll be $2, please. The money is free but there's a fee."
Us: "Awwww... OK, as long as it's free."

TheRedneck

a reply to: DBCowboy

Thats all you got??

Keep trying i know you can do better!!



Have a beer

a reply to: TheRedneck

Yeah, I caught that on the child thing myself after looking at it a time or two, but the net effect will be the same. If you have more than two kids, you won't get the dividend for it but you're still getting taxed for having them anyhow. And, the dividend you do get is getting taxed as regular income.

This will absolutely hit the poor the hardest since it's the poorer families who tend to have the most kids. Most affluent families only have one or two, seldom having more than that.

It will also hit commuters extremely hard, but it will hit all of us hard. Did you read the classes of things they already want to carbon tax? Just doing regular business for any business will be expensive and that means everything else will be expensive because those costs will be transferred on to the consumer. I'll bet our so-called Dividends don't take that into account, either.

Also, Anthony Watts isn't in charge at the moment. He lives in Chico and a lot of his staff both in real life and on the blog got burned out at Paradise, so he temporarily handed the editorship over to someone else while he helps get their lives back in order. I don't think he's back in the saddle yet.

It will be a green revolution alright, mold will grow over the entire economy.
These people have gone off the deep end.
Did they campaign on this type of enviro-nitwittery?
Crap like this makes secession sound like a great idea all of a sudden.

a reply to: ketsuko

I agree this is a horrible idea.

A carbon dividend payment is one pro-rata share for each adult and half a pro-rata share for each child under 19 years old, with a limit of 2 children per household, of amounts available for the month in the Carbon Dividend Trust Fund.

I could see this putting some kind of psychological pressure on these children, knowing or feeling as though they were more of a burden. It really reminds me of Ender Wiggin, the third child of his family, from the book Ender's Game. Their society had some similar type of penalty for having more than 2 children and he was bullied relentlessly. But then he, their 3rd child, ended up saving humanity. (its a scifi book so its not a spoiler, any sci fi about a gifted child is going to be about them saving the planet or saving the universe, or growing up and doing the same)

Imagine if they had "wisely" decided not to have that 3rd child?

a reply to: 3n19m470

If anyone has guts, the campaign ad just writes itself:

Why does your Congressman (or woman) hate single mothers with five kids? He (or she) thinks you have three useless breathers.

Like a tax will fix anything. This is why no one can take the whole environment movement seriously. The solution is always "give us your money" as if that's a solution to anything.

How about coming up with real solutions to the supposed problems? Then maybe they'd get my support.

originally posted by: DanDanDat
Carbon Tax ... the day liberals created a new way to separate the Haves from the Have-Nots.

The Haves will pay their carbon tax ... the Have-Nots will be sitting in the dark.

Let me update this based on our current tax system.


The Have-Nots will be sitting in the dark paying for the Haves.

a reply to: interupt42

They can't. This will make sure no one has any money to pay for anything and we'll all freeze to death together.

That’s the “energy freedom bill for Jesus!” Need a way to add veterans to the title though, so it sounds a little more patriotic. a reply to: DBCowboy

a reply to: XAnarchistX
Just like the fake news you inhale. Repackaging is your side. Capitalism would not let this much government interfere. Would be interesting to know your credentials. I for one worked hard to get where I am. Jealous? Registered pharmacist and Dentist. Nine years of hard work in school while working at the same time. No rest. Paid off my student loans. What government gravy are you protecting. Your beliefs sound very much Communist. A lot of us do not want to be dragged down to your level of existence. Work hard my friend turn the other cheek it is rewarding.