Seperating Atlantis from reality

a reply to: surfer_soul
Double post, so some lyrics of said song
Where are you now
Where are you now
Where are you now
Was it all in my fantasy
Where are you now
Were you only imaginary
Where are you now
Atlantis
Under the sea
Under the sea
Where are you now
Another dream
The monsters running wild inside of me
I'm faded
I'm faded
So lost

a reply to: Blue Shift

I don’t believe I have directly to come to think of it, or if I have it was a long time ago and my recollection is pretty vague. Thanks for pointing that out as it would be good to read all it directly from Plato as opposed to all the things I’ve heard referenced to Atlantis over the years.

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: Hanslune

I've seen that before. This is the second time you side stepped the question.

I was referring to the empty places in the quarry where the stones had been removed. Would you have me believe that after they got the stone out of there, they used "much manpower and much suffering" to leave such straight perfect looking cuts in the hole where the stone had been?

Please, not another red herring.

Those places aren't the quarry. Hans has said that they are for novices to learn. But I doubt that's what those cubic-looking spaces are. I would surmise they have some significance. But they are not the result of quarrying, in any case.

Quarries that have been found show clear evidence of the use of pounding stones, just like in Egypt. The "scalloping" that the fringe tries to make out as the marks left by some big machine.

Harte

a reply to: surfer_soul

On a quick scan it is very detailed with talk of Invoking and Poseidon, it is certainly in my reading list now
www.sacred-texts.com...

Many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your State in our histories; but one of them exceeds all the rest in greatness and valor; for these histories tell of a mighty power which was aggressing wantonly against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which you call the Columns of Heracles: the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from the islands you might pass through the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbor, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding
p. 11
land may be most truly called a continent. Now, in the island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire [quote ]

edit on 4-12-2018 by ManyMasks because: (no reason given)

a reply to: SLAYER69


Do we really have to look further than Plato's version, the Azores ridge checks all the boxes, Pyramids have been found on the Islands, dredging of the sea mounts show that they could have been above water 12 thousand years back. He said that they had colonies. Berbers ,and the Canary Islands before the Spanish killed the natives off thought they were the only survivors from a drowned world. Basques have the same tradition. Even the Christian tradition could be interpreted as Adam and Eve being banished East of Eden, could have some relevance, as it seems a wave of people went into Europe from the west.

The city of Atlantis is in S Florida. I play golf at Atlantis CC every week. Lost City Golf Club (fully private) is next door. Nothing mystical there except trying to read the greens.

a reply to: Harte

There's only one of those "learning stones" that I know of, quarries are all over the place. I think at least one of those carvings he showed with the three quarry pictures was presented as a finished carving in some article I saw. Unfortunately, I can't recall exactly what it was offhand.

Different quarries show different technique. They are different according to where they are and the time they were created. A good discussion would have to be more specific rather than citing one example and declaring a blanket statement from it. Might make a good thread someday but would require a lot of preparation.

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: Harte

There's only one of those "learning stones" that I know of, quarries are all over the place. I think at least one of those carvings he showed with the three quarry pictures was presented as a finished carving in some article I saw. Unfortunately, I can't recall exactly what it was offhand.

Different quarries show different technique. They are different according to where they are and the time they were created. A good discussion would have to be more specific rather than citing one example and declaring a blanket statement from it. Might make a good thread someday but would require a lot of preparation.

Methods of training stone cutters would presumably change over time as well.

The only pics I've seen of hard stone quarries (like andesite) from the period under discussion show the evidence for pounders. I am by no means an expert though. Just an interested party.
Softer stones like limestone can be broken or split out of a quarry fairly easily. Even assuming the use of pounders there, the technique would differ and there would be no scalloping.

Whatever else, I think we can be sure that these cubic voids are not from quarrying stone. After all, blocks would have to be cut out of the face of the stone on 4 sides and then somehow broken off in the back. How does that make any sense at all?

Harte

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: Hanslune

I've seen that before. This is the second time you side stepped the question.

No its the second time you side stepped the answer because you don't like it.

Why don't you show us how you've determined how they trained masons............

I was referring to the empty places in the quarry where the stones had been removed. Would you have me believe that after they got the stone out of there, they used "much manpower and much suffering" to leave such straight perfect looking cuts in the hole where the stone had been?

That is what I was answering - would you have me believe you didn't know that? lol

Tell us please why they polished the removed spots in quarries?

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: toms54
Well then, as you can see none of it is very reliable, because not even the stones, are set in stone.

Round and round we go on this spinning ball.

Good comment.

One of the sad aspects of fringe and alt. thought is that given no evidence for advance technology or an invisible advanced civilization they concentrate on stone work and numerals in all manner of strange associations.

Personal incredulity that our ancestors would be good masons.

originally posted by: toms54


Round and round we go on this spinning ball.

I see people flooding threads with posts saying we already know everything trying to shut down conversation and speculation.

Could you link to all 'these post sayings we already know everything''? We know somethings but there are hundreds of thousands of sites still to be explored.

What we are doing is showing what is presently known and the current consensus theory....vs ...factless speculation.

I look at it in dismay. It helps to keep the conversation realistic but we should not close our minds to new ways of seeing things.

No you seem to be upset that reality is dimming your attempts to make speculation = facts. We can talk all you want about fantasy and pretend it is real but in the end it is less satisfying than what reality actually tells us.

Gobekli Tepe and Catalhuyuck are far far more interesting that endless 'chronic astonishment' that people could do good stone work.....

originally posted by: surfer_soul

This is the problem with specialisation in modern professions, Archeology has its specialist sub branches as does Engineering. It seems though that most Archeologists know next to nothing about engineering or they wouldn’t claim all ancient stone working had to be done with stone pounders or bronze tools.

They don't claim that - they report what the actual evidence is - if you'd ever worked at a real archaeology site you would know that archaeologist are usually accompanied by engineers, geologists and all manner of associated experts. This fringe idea that archaeologist don't work in teams is one of their funniest misconceptions they have.

Some have suggested granite sand imbedded in copper could cut hard stone, which is true more or less, but you can’t cut internal right angles with that technique nor the other fine cuts we see. An engineer looks at these cuts in such hard stones and wonders at what technology was used. Because whatever it was, it isn’t what the archeologists claim.

Using abrasive you can do pretty much what you want - all that is needed is time and expertise and the ancients had that.

I’ve been through all this with Harte and if anything he has me more convinced that some as yet unknown method or technology was used at certain ancient sites as evidenced by the stone work. Hell we even see over cuts on some stone, where whatever tool was used has gone right over the mark it was cutting to which would take hours with any conceivable hand tool.

Yep it took Michelangelo two years with IRON chisels to make David - do you think he had a power tool because it took him so long? I've seen estimate of 1-5 years to make a Pharaoh's sarcophagus out of granite.

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: Hanslune

I've seen that before. This is the second time you side stepped the question.

I was referring to the empty places in the quarry where the stones had been removed. Would you have me believe that after they got the stone out of there, they used "much manpower and much suffering" to leave such straight perfect looking cuts in the hole where the stone had been?

Please, not another red herring.

Those places aren't the quarry. Hans has said that they are for novices to learn. But I doubt that's what those cubic-looking spaces are. I would surmise they have some significance. But they are not the result of quarrying, in any case.

Quarries that have been found show clear evidence of the use of pounding stones, just like in Egypt. The "scalloping" that the fringe tries to make out as the marks left by some big machine.

Harte

Exactly I've seen the ideas they were used for mason training or its has been theorized that later user of the quarry modified the site for religious worships as you find these type of polish cut stones in various places.

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: Harte

There's only one of those "learning stones" that I know of, quarries are all over the place. I think at least one of those carvings he showed with the three quarry pictures was presented as a finished carving in some article I saw. Unfortunately, I can't recall exactly what it was offhand.

If you mean the unfinished PP piece - no that was never finished and why it is famous it showed the various methods in use, stone hammering, 'pecking' and abrasive smoothing.

A good discussion would have to be more specific rather than citing one example and declaring a blanket statement from it. Might make a good thread someday but would require a lot of preparation.

I'm afraid the only person making 'blanket statements' was you with "do you expect me to believe comments'. Now while denial is far far easier than study it not very convincing.

We look forward to your lengthy and well researched paper, based on extensive field research, first hand experimentation and which will overturn all the previous experts.

Harte will give you a $1 if you do so!

originally posted by: Harte

Whatever else, I think we can be sure that these cubic voids are not from quarrying stone. After all, blocks would have to be cut out of the face of the stone on 4 sides and then somehow broken off in the back. How does that make any sense at all?

Harte

It is mysterious (which makes it interesting) which is why I mentioned one of theories. Masonry training, others as noted earlier was possible later religious use - I am at a loss to explain how you'd get that result from and modern technique either.

It appears to be a post removal action and is well spread over the Andes but is not present AFAIK in Egypt or Sumer, etc.

originally posted by: JimNasium

originally posted by: kingparrot
a reply to: rickymouse

... They're either monitoring this or the mensa™ site.

Ya: they're such a pain!!!
Always with the crazy partying, and the invitations to beer-chugging admissibility tests!!

Have heard from a very unreliable source: that 'mensa' was a term used in Atlantis, that meant: "place where nerds go to just relax and drink beer, while staying away from all of the crazy nerd-groupie women that everyone knows just basically throw themselves at any available nerd" .

But: yeah, it was a very unreliable source, so: not sure at all.
Probably shouldn't have even mentioned it.

Should just delete this post, before posting it.
Ok: just gonna press 'delete' now.
Wait!
No!
Stop!

a reply to: Hanslune

I think you are just trying to derail this thread because you don't want people to think about Atlantis. No one is forcing you to read this. Your flooding approaches troll like behavior.

a reply to: Hanslune

One of your problems is that you are so busy trying to think of an arguement, you fail to read the comment carefully enough to understand what has been said.

"Hell we even see over cuts on some stone, where whatever tool was used has gone right over the mark it was cutting to which would take hours with any conceivable hand tool."

He is referring to a cut that goes past the corner like what you would see if you cut a squared block with a circular blade.

You have a fine critical attitude which would be sharpened with careful listening.

a reply to: Nothin


Re: Your edit. Was that supposed to be rhetorical in nature? I'd even go as far as the 'what' being superfluous BUTT not as deep of a violation of a male sire who cannot think of a name for their progeny so name them the same as their own Self, (probably inflating their own Self worth in the process) then they add salt/briny to a sucking gut wound by adding "Sr." after the surname.

e.g. Dale Earnhardt Then You'll get some brain donor asking "You mean Senior or Junior?" Then You reply "What did I say?" I remember calling a (W)-witness to a Hit & Run. I telephoned the number provided and it was answered by a female voice. I asked for the (W)-"Dick Kizinya" (names have been changed to protect the guilty, the innocent, like TheTRUTH, needs no defense) and She replies "Junior or Senior?" I retort with "There is no such thing as 'Senior' and those adding letters after their surname when they aren't "earned" is real bad form... There is a Joe Blow; Joe Blow Jr.; and if He can't think of a name, Joe Blow III and Y'all can call Him "Trey" ..."

It has gotten so bad that even College Football players are doing it. We will throw out the hole "I bet they're not even married..." condemnation but what are the chances that He will still be playing College Football when/if His progeny gets to College?

Stay Tuned for My Personal Close Second... (see below)

a reply to: Nothin

Close second but real close so like this Close2nd.

Someone who shows up to a Yankee Spring Training game w/a year's worth of gripes, complaints and how they see the world. About the 2nd inning My ears were bleeding so I say "You're really bumming me out w/Your negative chat... Why not talk about baseball?..." So He starts out by telling Me that He was great in High School and colleges and Pro scouts were "All over me". He then took a 4 second break and asked Me if I ever played. I answered "Yea, a little. I didn't get to play in the Big Leagues..." When He cut Me off to say that He "probably" would have made it..

The 5th inning rolls around and He comes walking down in a freshly purchased Yankee™ jersey and then He turns around and reveals a #7 Mickey Mantle jersey w/the name "MANTLE" on the back. I say "Great, wear it in good health..."

A REAL Yankees™ fan would know the Yankees™ have NEVER had surnames on the aft...

He didn't say much after the 7th inning after Ken Griffey Jr. stopped by to chat (We played against each other in the minors and He'd come by the room for the PostMortem