Tunguska-like blast destroyed part of Middle East 3,700 years ago

How can they determine that it was an air burst like that and not something else? They did say “may have” so it’s just speculation so far or some kind of evidence?

originally posted by: rowdyrich
How can they determine that it was an air burst like that and not something else? They did say “may have” so it’s just speculation so far or some kind of evidence?

If you don't have a crater then it either blew up, burned up (meaning it was small) or turned magically into tulips. However yes it is current theory I would suspect they will look for and attempt to find fragments of it.

Great thread, good stuff indeed. Information pertaining to a 'cosmic war' is available all over the globe, but for some reason our mainstream academic establishment is unwilling to allow us the truth of these events. Perhaps they think civilisation will fall if we were to become aware of forces which can & have overthrown aspects of our civilisation in the past, even if we weren't exactly the primary target..

a reply to: rowdyrich

I'm sure if you write them a nice letter outlining your objections & reasoning for the same, that they might issue a major revision of their thesis. It's great to have uninformed knee-jerk opinions about highly complex matters beyond our own sphere of understanding, but in reality, your opinion on this probably isn't valid.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

In the past, I have sent letters to people that wrote journal articles and magazine articles. Also software developers. You might be surprised at how many write back often with useful information.

originally posted by: rowdyrich
How can they determine that it was an air burst like that and not something else? They did say “may have” so it’s just speculation so far or some kind of evidence?

rowdyrich,
There are multiple lines of evidence that lead this conclusion, and it has taken several decades to come to it.
I'll get to that in a bit, but what I find most interesting is the fact that the main focus of the work by this group is Divinity studies. They invited a member of the Comet Research Group to join their dig at Tall El Hammam, several years ago, to see the evidence they could not account for with standard archeological theories.
They then brought the evidence to specialists in their group, such refractory materials experts and impact melt specialists.
So what as scientific study to corroborate a biblical narrative has transformed into a study framing a biblical narrative into a scientific reality.

Like I mentioned in my reply to Hanslune, the physical evidence at the sites in area is very difficult to fit into a normal narrative.
Whole towns were flattened and burned, at first it was thought that inter group warfare or earthquakes were the culprit, but the level of destruction was far beyond anything observed at normal sites.
The article I read many years ago, detailed how at that town every build was knocked down and burned, there were the shattered and burned remains of people lying among the rubble.
The evidence for burning was on the inside and outside of buildings. Internal timbers were charcoalized indicating that it had gotten hot enough to burn wooden timbers buried in the mud brick rubble of the collapsed buildings.
The authors of the article I read figured it would have taken an army of many thousands weeks to achieve the level of destruction seen.

The 3.7kaBP Middle Ghor Event: Catastrophic Termination of a Bronze Age Civilization” This paper surveys the multiple lines of evidence that collectively suggest a Tunguskalike, cosmic airburst event that obliterated civilization—including the Middle Bronze Age city-state anchored by Tall el-Hammam—in the Middle Ghor (the 25 km diameter circular plain immediately north of the Dead Sea) ca. 1700 B.C.E., or 3700 years before present (3.7kaBP). Analyses of samples taken over twelve seasons of the Tall el Hammam Excavation Project have been and are being performed by a team of scientists from New Mexico Tech, Northern Arizona University, NC State University, Elizabeth City (NC) State University, DePaul University, Trinity Southwest University, the Comet Research Group, and Los Alamos National Laboratories, with remarkable results. Commensurate with these results are the archaeological data collected from across the entire occupational footprint (36 ha) of Tall el-Hammam, demonstrating a directionality pattern for the high-heat, explosive 3.7kaBP Middle Ghor Event that, in an instant, devastated approximately 500 km2 immediately north of the Dead Sea, not only wiping out 100% of the Middle Bronze Age cities and towns, but also stripping agricultural soils from once-fertile fields and covering the eastern Middle Ghor with a super-heated brine of Dead Sea anhydride salts pushed over the landscape by the Event’s frontal shockwaves. Based upon the archaeological evidence, it took at least 600 years to recover sufficiently from the soil destruction and contamination before civilization could again become established in the eastern Middle Ghor.

The high temp materials are the key, these materials cannot be made by any other natural or human process.
The directionality of the destruction points to localised origin and direction of travel.


I haven't found the actual study yet, only an abstract, that is buried in 200+pages of abstracts on Middle Eastern archeology, with no table of contents.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: 727Sky

People have been trading the green and different colored glass that the nuke created for centuries. I know conspiracy theorists have been saying it for a while.

If no meteor impact, then it was a nuke. High heat air burst indeed.

A thermonuclear bomb 3,700 years ago probably more powerful than anything we have now?

Maybe nukes can time travel too?

a reply to: Hanslune

Remember momentum must also be conserved

The reality of what happened is a lot more complicated than it broke up or burned up.
It's more of a case of a combination of all the above.
Impact physics expert, and oddly enough impact critic, Mark Boslough's ground breaking sims of impact physics have shown that, given the right conditions of impactor mass/velocity/composition,
you can have a situation where the impactor is very nearly or entirely consumed, yet still hits the ground with nearly all its energy in the form of a superheated plasma.
There are a few sites around the world right now, of fairly recent origin

a reply to: ausername

Maybe its a common stepping stone to higher civilization.

Maybe the last people to make nuclear weapons left a few in a cave somewhere and a couple of kids in hover crafts stole them and shot them in an act of rage and ignorance..., a VERY long time ago.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: ausername

Maybe its a common stepping stone to higher civilization.

Maybe the last people to make nuclear weapons left a few in a cave somewhere and a couple of kids in hover crafts stole them and shot them in an act of rage and ignorance..., a VERY long time ago.

Nukes, ah yes nukes - depending on how they are made are subject to degradation of its components and are especially sensitive to the affects of half life especially on items like tritium triggers, etc, (about 12.4 years or so) so if that type of trigger was used it would be essentially worthless in a few years. Most nukes also use chemical explosives which degrade at very high rates of decay. They also used electricity in the design and batteries are notorious for not lasting very long.

Put me down as skeptical for 'stored nukes being of any use after a few years'.

a reply to: Hanslune

Yea but like Planet of the Apes.

a reply to: Hanslune

What you say is true for nuclear devices made with 20th-century technology.

I am aware of the basic law of entropy. Perhaps they made them to a higher standard than 1950s tech that has been slightly updated as material sciences and engineering techniques permit.

Hell, if we made things out of lead and gold alone we would probably have them longer than we want or need them around.

Even now we have the ability to make materials that last well beyond the usefulness of the components they are used in.

How long will Sagan's golden discs be available to prospective alien civilizations?

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: Hanslune

What you say is true for nuclear devices made with 20th-century technology.

I am aware of the basic law of entropy. Perhaps they made them to a higher standard than 1950s tech that has been slightly updated as material sciences and engineering techniques permit.

Hell, if we made things out of lead and gold alone we would probably have them longer than we want or need them around.

Even now we have the ability to make materials that last well beyond the usefulness of the components they are used in.

How long will Sagan's golden discs be available to prospective alien civilizations?

One can invoke magic but half life's won't change. Sagan's disk will last 'forever' but then it wasn't a machine.

If you can make unbreakable technology you can also probably make it so that people without that technology cannot use it especially nasty things like nukes. However this is all speculation. I highly doubt that part of Asia was hit by an air burst nuke. Possible but highly implausible or probable. While a meteorite is possible, plausible and probable.

Imagine the legends that came from that.

a reply to: Metallicus

Best I can figure he decided to take a 2000 year vacation from this world. Bad thing here? Times up. That kind of thing could start happening anytime now.

a reply to: Hanslune

What you say is a further speculation outside of reality on my part is none farther than the more "plausible" explanation you offer which is still outside of known reality.

No impact site makes me think to another possibility.

Barring the half-life of fuel, which can be replaced, the instructions and necessary information can be communicated and passed down so long as some standard of pretech was kept up to par.

Let's say we had a global reset now. How long until we can't make nukes again you think? Immediately and never again for all intent and purpose I say. Not until we rebuild the basic components to an advanced civilization.

How long until we lose the ability to service a nuke and make it operational? Probably for much longer than our ability to make them from scratch.

It is all guesswork but I am done not even considering the glaring possibility that we are not the first advanced civilization.

Here is a sim of airbursts and ground strikes of an asteroid into the ocean
youtu.be...

The airburst models do a good job illustrating the conservation of momentum.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: Hanslune
It is all guesswork but I am done not even considering the glaring possibility that we are not the first advanced civilization.

You can do as you like however it is - given the present information we have - unlikely in the extreme unless you go WAY back - were millions to tens of millions of years or use a non HSS (or earlier/unknown Hominids).

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: Hanslune
It is all guesswork but I am done not even considering the glaring possibility that we are not the first advanced civilization.

You can do as you like however it is - given the present information we have - unlikely in the extreme unless you go WAY back - were millions to tens of millions of years or use a non HSS (or earlier/unknown Hominids).

Current 'civilisation'...the blink of an eye to your "millions to tens of millions"of years.
Millions to tens of millions...the blink of an eye to the age of our planet.

The figures are mind boggling.
The concept of civilisations before ours, not so mind boggling.

We know nothing, even though we like to pretend we do and that includes me.