Documentary - Dominion (2018)- Treatment of farm animals in Australia

originally posted by: Puppylove
Moralist vegans and vegetarians are idiots that know nothing abut how to actually help the animals and care only about their own self righteous morality.

Being vegan or vegetarian does nothing to help animals, it just causes them to not be customers and thus be disregarded and irrelevant. There's nothing meat producing industries could do to acquire them as customers, so why should they care.

If they honestly wanted to make a difference, they would research which industries are humane in their care of animals and do it right and buy exclusively from them, and promote their product to their friends, providing free advertisement to the more humane companies and helping them flourish, while simultaneous hindering the less humane companies by exposing their less humane policies and practices.

This would both encourage more humane treatment by creating a strong market for it, and discourage it by hindering the less humane companies.

As is they just make a lot of noise and since they don't actually buy the meat the more humane places produce in an attempt to pander to people who want more humane treatment for animals they actually make it harder for the more humane companies to stay in business and maintain such policies.

Kind of like when people had slaves right? you should have just bought more and treated them better.

a reply to: Blaine91555

It's been disproven over and over that vegan diets aren't as healthy as meat & veggie diets. All your nutrients can be obtained through veggies. Taking supplements is just easier, as they are with a Meat diet too.

In fact, a proper vegan diet is probably healthier than a majority of American diets.

Before being vegan, I found it tough to find meat that was raised in very good conditions. Really tough and expensive. Veganism is much easier and cheaper. The staples of a vegan diet are all non-expensive veggies like beans and rice.

Also, there are vegan body builders, so it must be possible to have an extremely physically damanding lifestyle as a vegan.

a reply to: Puppylove

So constantly getting people to think about the treatment of animals does nothing? You make no sense. Less meat customers = less meat produced.

One of the reasons for factory farming is because we have so many people who eat meat.

Like it or not, vegans do more for animal cruelty awareness than any meat eating group. Awareness/knowledge is power.
Some people will go vegan with that knowledge, some will continue to buy meat but maybe from better sources because they were made aware of animal suffering,

So I guess we're all idiots for trying to get people to care about suffering?

If vegan activists directed their effort into achieving realistic goals, such as drawing focus specifically to those farms where inhumane/cruel practices exist so that the general public know and authorities can take action to ensure justice is served (seeing as the bulk of those practices are already illegal) - then they'd actually make some proper progress and a lot more folks would be open to listening.

As it is, they try and paint the entire industry with a broad-stroke (such as with the "documentary" in the OP) as if all are on the same level and actually expect the World to just stop the consumption of meat -- and insinuate that anyone who doesn't is a cold blooded murderer. That kind of mindset is doing more harm to the animals than they seem to realize... with some more rational thinking they could be doing so much more with all the effort they put in. Shame.

a reply to: Navieko

Look at the stats, I personally don't think they have the US high enough, practically everyone I know is either vegan or vegetarian or becoming so working on it and/or has friends and Family that are either.

Even small towns offer vegan/vegetarian food now and all of the markets in our small town sells the alternative foods such as Quorn (made in UK). When we travel we always fine places that specialize in vegan and or vegetarian foods. This is about the $ so it must make sense to serve them now and that was not true for most of my life.

According to the 2006 Hindu-CNN-IBN State of the Nation Survey, 31% of Indians are vegetarian, while another 9% also consume eggs (ovo-vegetarian).[27]

10% of Begum 10% of Germany 14% of Sweden 19% of Mexico on and on the numbers everywhere are growing.
en.wikipedia.org...

and insinuate that anyone who doesn't is a cold blooded murderer

Would you feel it was if they killed your Dog or Cat or bird or whatever pet?

People who have been asked the question "Is killing an animal murder?" show increasing support for using the word. On October 18, 2015, 58% of the respondents voted “yes” and 42% voted “no.” Today, the numbers are 69% "yes" and 31% "no."

www.alternet.org...

a reply to: Navieko

Thread on ATS shows 9 out of 10 animals came from our same two ancestors

Murder

All humans are descended from just TWO people and a catastrophic event almost wiped out ALL species 100,000 years ago, scientists claim Genetic 'bar codes' of five million animals from different species were surveyed The research deduced that humans and animals sprang from single pair This happened after a catastrophic event a long time after the last ice age

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: SeaWorthy

Life consumes life. Whether you eat meat or eat plants animals are dying by the droves so you can live. It's a cruel aspect of reality and nature. If you want to bitch about animals being killed so others can live then bitch to whatever God you believe in or bitch at the natural order. Calling people murderers for eating meat is just plain stupid. You're just as culpable eating plants as one you're competing with other animals for resources and killing them to maintain your farm land. You're just as culpable for living in a home, for driving on roads, living in civilization. Pretty much existing.

This is why most people can't take veganism seriously. You need to be completely delusional about reality to believe being vegan makes your mark on the world any less dependant on the death and suffering of other non human life forms.

originally posted by: SeaWorthy

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
Is it so wrong to have compassion?

No.
Every year I see farmers cut down cornstalks, and other defenseless crops.
Vegan Demons don't recognize that cornstalks are alive. Ever since Veganism got mainstream media to the masses more and more crops are being eaten every year. At the rates the vegan demons are killing and eating the crops, animals around the world will die of starvation in the year 2040!
Save the animals from suffering and starvation!
Keep vegan demons away from crops!

I bet you have a dog.

And...Vegan Demon lost the bet!

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
a reply to: TopSecretMan

People got to realize the animal food pyramid, and how humans got to the top of it.

People wanted to sell you something that cost more so they did.

I dont understand what you mean

a reply to: Puppylove

RE:
I have not called anyone anything. The "murder" is a question based on the article. Also I don't "complain" this thread was not started by me but I certainly have a right to join the discussion.
If you think that you can compare your dog or cat to your daisy so be it there you stand.

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: SeaWorthy

originally posted by: TopSecretMan

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
Is it so wrong to have compassion?

No.
Every year I see farmers cut down cornstalks, and other defenseless crops.
Vegan Demons don't recognize that cornstalks are alive. Ever since Veganism got mainstream media to the masses more and more crops are being eaten every year. At the rates the vegan demons are killing and eating the crops, animals around the world will die of starvation in the year 2040!
Save the animals from suffering and starvation!
Keep vegan demons away from crops!

I bet you have a dog.

And...Vegan Demon lost the bet!

You know that is just plain sad. You have to resort to name calling.

a reply to: SeaWorthy

I didn't compare my dog or cat to a daisy. Plants and animals don't exist in a vacuum seperate from each other. In order to eat your corn animals need to be culled and driven from their homes, animals burrows and lives are torn apart as farm equipment drives over them. You live in homes which used to be wilderness, you drive on roads that used to be wilderness. You live in a society that blocks old migration patterns, provides less wildeness for wildlife to live in. The number of things you do and rely on that links to the death and or suffering of animals is extreme. Eating or not eating meat does not change that.

What exactly do you want to happen with all the domesticated animals? Set free into a world they are no longer prepared for to also not be culled by the predators that no longer exist? Even if there were the predators how is that better? Being killed by wolves is a whole lot worse than what we do. It can be a day long process of terror with nips here and there as one is worn down chased to exhaustion and eventual collapse with no more will to fight as they begin shredding you while still alive.

You pretend like animals gain no benefit from being food. Look I could write a novel on this so I'm going to stop here and hope you get an inkling of the point and can extrapolate the rest from here.

Oh and to be clear if I could have my wish I'd be turned into kibble or fertilizer or something upon my death to return to nature my body for consumption to enter back into the same circle of life I depended on for my life.

As long as human desire to consume meat and have it cheap and readily available factory farming will always be a fact. I despise the idea of warehousing animals or worse yet caging them like veal calves. I draw the ethical line at wild animals taken while hunting and farm-raised animals with access to free spaces, water and sunlight. To me what matters most is did the animal have a life? If yes then I can live with it.

Vegans can criticize all day but they would have every aboriginal tribe in the Northern latitudes starve to death. If half the planet needed animal proteins to survive then why would it be wrong now ? We wouldn't be here without the practice.

Not watching the video, it would just make me sick and depressed.

ETA: I don't know what to believe about karma, I can't help believe humans abusing our fellow Earth creatures is going to be anything but a huge negative.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

To me what matters most is did the animal have a life?

And hopefully a death that was not full of hours of fear and was clean like we would all want.

Factory farms have overtaken the smaller farms. Sad but true, the majority of the farms end up being the focus when of course the small farmers are the caring ones. Also, note that states have banned the use of cameras on farms. That is called the AG gag.

'Ag Gag': More States Move to Ban Hidden Cameras on Farms
"We have law enforcement and regulatory agencies to handle those kinds of situations," said Indiana state Sen. Travis Holdman, who authored such a bill in Indiana that passed the state Senate in February. "We don't need a vigilante group out there with cameras and video cameras taking pictures of things that we just don't like."

Whose gonna speak for the animals the bought and paid for lobbyist or the eh, hm "vigilante groups"?

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
a reply to: Asktheanimals

To me what matters most is did the animal have a life?

And hopefully a death that was not full of hours of fear and was clean like we would all want.

That too of course.

Some people seem to get it. The focus should be on quality of life, not whether we eat meat or not.

more facts about animal factory:

Chicken now needs 2-4 weeks to be fat as F and be ready for harvest. 30 years ago when meat consumption was low these chickens needed 2-4 months.

Pigs
I live in the country, there is no farmer that raise pigs because it is not worth it. He will need to buy special food and treat them with vaccines and whatnot just to get the same profit a big farm factory do on one pig. But one of my friends is raising 2 pigs for himself because he says they are healthy and I ask him how?
You use the same food, you use the same vaccines as big farmers and the only difference is your pigs are alone in jail while others are packed in huge packs.

The next question will be, how old are you and how many of your generation have cancer or died of one. Now this depends on your age, if you are young like 20 years you probably are not worried, but if you are in the 40tis I bet you know secveral people who died from cancer and a dozen of them fighting one. Now if you are around sixty years you are playing Pac Man on 99th level against cancer.