Socialist / Communist movement in New York - it needs to stop.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: watchitburn

It doesn't work, it's never worked.

Gimme a break and visit that Norwegian #hole of democratic socialism then? Who cares about this Cold War mindset with your textbook answers? You had your chance, right?

It didn't work, your corporate paradigm never worked for everyone.

How about you educate yourself on what you think you know about the social democracy of Northern European countries and the "democratic socialism" BS the left has been trying to push lately.

Democratic socialism is a scam

a reply to: Theocracy4America

Holy wall of text batman!
As TinySickTears said, vote her out then, otherwise people obviously support her views.

Why do people think what we have isn't working? What specifically isn't working? My life and the life of my family seem to be ok. People around me seem to be ok.

So who are the people that think the system isn't working. What specifically is not working? Do trains not run on time? Is the post office broken? Do aircraft fall out of the sky? Are all of our roads un-drivable? Seriously, I don't see what is so broken really other than healthcare cost and over taxation.

Well that and crime in certain areas..

Otherwise, everything seems pretty good in the USA to me on this date of November 19th 2018.

a reply to: watchitburn

and you don't think we could end up with a tyrannical gov't under the system we have now?? any system will work as long as the ones in power act intelligently and without greed.. and any system can fail if stupidity and greed begin to rule the day. ain't no system better than the other, it's the people who hold the power in the system that make the difference. instead of just dismissing the idea of gov't funded healthcare or higher education calling it "socialist", we look at what the advantages/disadvantages of having it would be in comparison to what we have now in realistic terms. a big advantage I see is that in those european countries that have universal healthcare, it seems that they would be able to pick up a major epidemic much faster than us since if it hits in the states, many of the first cases probably wouldn't show up for healthcare till they were near death!! we just can't afford to go for the medical care and so we tend to put it off till it's so bad that we have no choice. and, we can't retain the title of number one in anything if we have a workforce that is still operating on a 20th century technological level, we need to throw some money into training them for the 21st century. if we actually think that they should keep borrowing more and more money to get that training, then that just means they will need more and more money in pay so they can pay back their loans. which, well, the companies will either have to pay out, or we can just expect another massive banking crisis as they all default.



have you what the author of the op wants??

www.theocraticamerica.org...

give it a read!!

a reply to: watchitburn

[...]“here’s the truth: democratic socialists want to end capitalism. And we want to do that by pursuing a reform agenda today in an effort to revive a politics focused on class hierarchy and inequality in the United States.”

quillette.com...

So what? You'd rather save your "free market" capitalism with it's inequality and let the class-warfare play out?

If this sounds extreme, it’s not because it upsets our American “right-of-center” political sensibilities. When I presented a team of Norwegian economists with a summary written by Vox of DSA’s economic ideas, eleven out of the 12 indicated the views would fall on the “far-left/fringe” end of Norway’s political spectrum.

11 out of 12 EXPERT economists had some fun with stupid labels. Cool! What is this, a joke for economists?
Maybe ask someone with a political science degree next time?

originally posted by: Fools
Why do people think what we have isn't working? What specifically isn't working? My life and the life of my family seem to be ok. People around me seem to be ok.

So are the people that think the system isn't working. What specifically is not working? Do trains not run on time? Is the post office broken? Do aircraft fall out of the sky? Are all of our roads un-drivable? Seriously, I don't see what is so broken really other than healthcare cost and over taxation.

Well that and crime in certain areas..

Otherwise, everything seems pretty good in the USA to me on this date of November 19th 2018.

I think there are aspects of our society which could certainly be improved. Our education system sucks. Our infrastructure has flaws. We can do better with healthcare. Our taxes are outrageous. Our politics are corrupt.

Where the boots meet the ground though, you’re right. We have a very comfortable and safe society. Our healthcare is accessible and people still travel from all around the world to get access to it. Other than a few areas our streets are mostly safe. But we can’t deny that violent crime is a concern.

We can do better. We ought to do better.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
Is.. ah.. is this what and how people really think in the USA?

No one I know.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: watchitburn

It doesn't work, it's never worked.

Gimme a break and visit that Norwegian #hole of democratic socialism then? Who cares about this Cold War mindset with your textbook answers? You had your chance, right?

It didn't work, your corporate paradigm never worked for everyone.

It’s called social democracy, not democratic socialism. You made the same mistake as Bernie Sanders.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Theocracy4America

Religious zealots are just as much of a danger to the Constitution as Socialists.

What Amendments did the moral majority strike down?
Has the Catholic church killed the Constitution?
Mormons?
Muslims?
Got any facts to back that statement up or was that just socialist engineering speaking out?

The 13th amendment was the result of urging by religious factions from the North.
Shall we ignore their contributions as well?
I will admit that 30 years ago I probably would have said the same thing.
I was pretty liberal in my younger years but age has a way of balancing things out.
I see the need for liberalism and conservatism as they both have valid ideas.

a reply to: watchitburn

No they aren't.

Religion is protected under 1A.

Socialism is not.

Socialism is directly prohibited by Article 4 Section 4 US Constitution - which GUARANTEES without question a REPUBLICAN FORM OF A GOVERNMENT by name and provides remedies for putting down insurrection and sedition.

Anything else is intolerable and unacceptable. It's a great idea if you want to start a civil war, however.

Socialism/communism is EQUALLY HORRIBLE to nazi-ism and other forms of terrorist failed ideologies.

You could be like the Irish, try to form a socialist Republic.... but Americans by and large don't want socialism. Those saying they do have no idea what it really is: a failed and deadly ideology that is all about taking from everyone to enrich the few under threat of violence by the State.

a reply to: Assassin82

our healthcare is accessible???
it wasn't that accessible to me when I broke my ankle, it took a danged state legislature getting on the surgeons arse to do the surgery without the two thousand dollar down payment he wanted before he did the surgery.
and, it seems it hasn't changed, since my friend was complaining not that long ago about the money that they wanted to operate on her corpal tunnel before they would do that surgery. neither of us were "poor" enough to be able to qualify for any gov't assistance, I had lost my insurance when I ended up having to quit my job before the ankle snapped (there was a problem with it then and I just got sick of dealing with the pain thought if I just toned down the use of my foot, it would help) and she is a stay at home housewife and mother and also uninsured. why I say it doesn't work is because in both cases, the family was paying out plenty of taxes, some of which was going to help the poor obtain their healthcare. in my case, we had moved out of the hud subsidized housing that our taxes were helping the poor have because they raised our rent beyond our means so we found a cheaper living space. so we were just struggling to keep up with the lifestyle the gov't was giving away. just like it's wrong to take away the candy from one child just to turn around and give it to another, you shouldn't be taking money away from one family who needs healthcare but can't manage to get it, just to give it to another so they can! and since it's not like we can just drop these programs without crashing the whole danged system now, then we need to find a way to assure that those who are footing the bill for others can have healthcare that is equal to those who their money is being used to give the healthcare to! we've failed to do that, and it's been decades!!! so ya, just switch to some form of gov't sponsored universal healthcare. taxmoney is being used to provide additional funding for the training of doctors and nurses, it's being used for research and development of new medicines and treatments, it's given to hospitals, and in some places it's providing over 50% of the revenues that is going into the healthcare system. it's already pretty much socialized anyways at least this way every american will be able to get a little bang for their bucks!!!

a reply to: Asktheanimals

maybe it was a reaction to this website, which the author of this op posted a link to in a previous thread of his??

www.theocraticamerica.org...

a reply to: Propagandalf

It's kinda funny that I just saw precisely the same term in that article, don't ya think?

Semantics, who cares?

a reply to: Theocracy4America
Well apart from the first two sentences the rest of your post is "could", "should", "might", it's all just your opinions or some others opinions.
Don't like her policies? So what's new. On ATS here virtually all of you grumble and groan about Trumps policies or Clintons policies. Why aren't you all calling for them to be censored. The word I'm looking for is hypocrites.

a reply to: Theocracy4America

Gee, I don't know. Marx had some pretty good criticism of laissez faire capitalism:



The problem we have in this country is not socialism but extreme inequality. We about as far away from communism as you can get and still have a currency with a shred of value. The numbers do not lie:

Purchasing Power of the Consumer Dollar

The numbers simply do not support your right wing ideological delusions. We simply have to many cartels and monopolies driving the worker making the median wage into a poverty wage.

But do not worry my comrades. Marx always said laissez faire capitalism is followed by communism. This is because unfettered greed would result in the governments currency collapsing to nothing in value as it is concentrated into fewer and fewer hands. Once the currency collapses in value the people standing in the bread lines will demand MORE government not less. See you in the bread lines comrades!!

Make life more affordable for average people and this won't happen

Seems pretty easy to me the rich will eat the poor has been proven in almost every society throughout history

Those without power and a voice will eventually rise up and take it through force

Historically its not probably but inevitable.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Asktheanimals

maybe it was a reaction to this website, which the author of this op posted a link to in a previous thread of his??

www.theocraticamerica.org...

Here's a really good video response to the idea of having a "American Theocratic Party":



You would think both sides of the aisle would agree on just this one thing!

a reply to: toysforadults

I agree with your post. To add to your sentiments it seems to me the government has a role in passing laws creating and protecting free-markets. Instead, we have laws creating cartels and monopolies at the expense of the working class. The problems with our country are not rocket science. The lobbyists force the politicians to pass laws creating cartels and monopolies in exchange for campaign financing. Money equals representation in government. The common man making the median worker's wages is SCREWED as succinctly expressed in this diatribe on the subject:



But the American people keep electing rich $#*$^$# like Trump as stated in the video.

a reply to: dfnj2015

I agree with you here. Odd we are agreeing a lot lately.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: dfnj2015

I agree with you here. Odd we are agreeing a lot lately.

It scares me too. I think we all have the same problems but we just use different language to express what the problem is and how the problems needs to be solved. For example, government IS the problem because of the lobbyists. But Government is the ONLY solution. I tend to agree with FDR on the role of government:

"An old English judge once said: 'Necessitous men are not free men.' Liberty requires opportunity to make a living - a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for.

For too many of us the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor - other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness.

Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could appeal only to the organized power of government."

Any reasonable person will agree with the criticisms that communism is too extreme. However, if you make any criticism at all of laissez faire capitalism and the extreme inequality we have in this country you are immediately labeled a full blown communist. Ignoring the suffering that occurs from extreme inequality and the problems with unfettered laissez faire capitalism seems to me to be insane and unreasonable. There has to be some metric in the middle where gross extreme inequality is addressed without claiming the entire system is worthless communism.

I don't know. I do not have much hope for American politics. I think we just have to wait until the currency collapses to zero value and we have total economic collapse before wealth inequality gets addressed in any meaningful way.