Jesus never said that we are saved by Faith Alone

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Butterfinger
Here we go with the Leftist hedonism!

Not a big fan of the ladies I take it.

Dont tell my wife!

a reply to: Butterfinger


As long as you don't tell me his name I wont.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Butterfinger


As long as you don't tell me his name I wont.

It Was DIO!!!!!!! [jo jo refrence]

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Butterfinger


As long as you don't tell me his name I wont.

Its Pat.

Androgyny is my fetish, as with all extreme righties.

a reply to: lightofgratitude

My religious education only goes to the 8th grade so I am no expert on this. I was raised Catholic and this wasn't discussed in my Sunday school, pro or con, but I believe the church goes with a combination of faith and works.

There's a lot to this discussion. I've tried to read and think about it over the years. I don't recall Jesus ever saying that we are saved by faith alone, but he made it clear that faith is important. As to works, is works the same as law? Maybe it depends upon how you interpret law. Law does exist. He didn't change it. It will continue till all is accomplished. Does that mean just the crucifixion or also his return? He said we should live by the spirit of the law.

I recall reading him saying that not everyone that calls upon him will go to heaven. He also says if you give a thirsty person water or visit someone in prison you have done it for him. I think this is a strong argument for Christian works of kindness. Somewhere it is said faith without works is dead.

One thing I have struggled with is newborn children. How can they have faith? If they die, how can they not go to heaven? I remember talking to a Baptist about this once. He felt the same way.

a reply to: lightofgratitude

Jesus said that keeping His Word leads to Life and that in all things we should do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Following Christ by walking in Love (GOD) as He did, leads to Life, not just believing He is The Son of God and died for all sins. If that's all it takes to be a Christian , and not Good Works, then even Satan is a Christian since he would know that Jesus is The Son of God who died for all sins.Text

You have understood some of Jesus correctly but not all. Keeping His word is correct but the part in which you say that we should do unto others we so desire is not correct. The entire thought must be considered in order to quote that thought and Luke 6:31 is not the entire thought. This one verse is used wrongly so many times by so many people that is has become a golden rule to excuse so much that is not true.

Luke 6:30-36 is the thought and should be taught as the thought is taught. The thought is in giving to the needs of another. Not to their desires but their needs.

Luke 6:30-36
(30) Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
(31) And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
(32) For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
(33) And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
(34) And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
(35) But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
(36) Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

You also must consider the word Love. Love in this sense does not include accepting another person's desires. It's meaning is to respect the needs of another and offer peace with no harm to that person/s. This does not imply that you should approve of their sin/s but only that through respect one should never entice harm or unnecessary hardship upon others and with that type of love in mind should try to teach the desires of God.

God most certainly loves this procreation but even as He loves, hell still exists in judgement. God never asks anyone to do that which is against His permissive will. Jesus showed His righteous indignation with the temple money changers and by this example you should reevaluate what you have been taught.

a reply to: lightofgratitude

I guess Jesus was wrong and the inspired preserved words of God in English are in error.

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Oh well let's throw out the Holy Bible AV1611 and just stick to opinions then.

a reply to: yuppa

Here is something Jesus said we were to live by

John 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Which is exactly as Paul taught in

1Cor 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Running Head And Feet First Into A Literal Death Will Convince You That "Law" Is Worthless And Detrimental... Especially If You Don't Know It's Death You're About To Face
Only An Ass Preps For Scripture And Nonsensical Beliefs.

Law Is Not Life. Neither Is Christ...

Death Is Inevitable...

Read The Book!

a reply to: toms54

One thing I have struggled with is newborn children. How can they have faith? If they die, how can they not go to heaven? I remember talking to a Baptist about this once. He felt the same way.

All children as well as mentally challenged people as well as those who had not reached an accountable age will live in the flesh, on the new earth and be given one hundred years to accept Jesus. After they have lived their lives they will die the same as you and I will die and the justified will join those who are in the kingdom of heaven. The sinner will die a hundred years old and be accursed just the same as they are today.

Where are these children now? They are in the bosom of Jesus the same as Lazarus was also in the bosom of Jesus till he was restored into his flesh. Lazarus was not resurrected in Luke's account. He was restored. To be resurrected one must be either in the kingdom of heaven or in the hell of Sheol. One must be judged to be in heaven or hell.

Revelation 22:14-15
(14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(15) For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Isaiah 65:17-22
(17) For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
(18) But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
(19) And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
(20) There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
(21) And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
(22) They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

Most Christians were never taught this and are greatly afraid to touch upon it because it puts a stumbling block in their doctrines.

a reply to: lightofgratitude

Jesus said that keeping His Word leads to Life and that in all things we should do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Following Christ by walking in Love (GOD) as He did, leads to Life, not just believing He is The Son of God and died for all sins. If that's all it takes to be a Christian , and not Good Works, then even Satan is a Christian since he would know that Jesus is The Son of God who died for all sins. Text

Satan was created by the Word of God in the celestial realm, so yes, Satan does know his creator but knowing is not what faith is. Knowing is a certainty. Faith is a hope. In this case the faith that is hope pertains only to the uncertain ones who by hope have the faith that Jesus is true. Jesus came not for the justified who are righteous, but He came for the sinner who is not certain and have no hope. [Matthew 9:13] ----

When one overcomes sin and strives through awareness of sin, that one is hoping through faith that he/she will become justified or righteous. Not that he/she will never sin again but that through faith he/she can overcome sin. Nevertheless there will be a judgment of all people in death because judgment is not always condemnation but includes rewards also.

Satan has already received his judgment and sentence pronounced. Therefore he has no faith or hope but only certain death in the end of time. Even Satan will cry Lord Lord in that day of his death but will not be saved from his eternal punishment.

Jesus did not die to establish a blanket to erase all sin from the sinner but Jesus did die to establish His kingdom in heaven and give an escape for the sinner through grace. One cannot die in a sin without that sin being judged in death but one can sin and be forgiven that sin before death and judgment.

God has given all people a measure of faith. Some greater than others. As one become more certain, then that faith grows and as that faith grows then much more is required in righteousness. That is called works. Works are a result of Faith or Hope. As faith grows then righteousness grows in likeness. Faith is the inward gift from God and Works are the outward results of the inward faith. One cannot exist without the other. Both are joined in marriage of mind and body
being one.

a reply to: Seede

When one overcomes sin and strives through awareness of sin, that one is hoping through faith that he/she will become justified or righteous. Not that he/she will never sin again but that through faith he/she can overcome sin. Nevertheless there will be a judgment of all people in death because judgment is not always condemnation but includes rewards also.

I personally don't think that overcoming "sin" opens any doors. John 3:3 states that no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. Yet the only clue from the New Testament as to what "born again" actually means is "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit".

Does "born again" really mean that we need to empower our spiritual nature to overcome our egocentric materialistic nature. So that the only personal desire that remains within us is to serve God. Perhaps this is why NT quotes its easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

Those seeking to be born again have to turn their back to the apple in Genesis.

a reply to: glend

I personally don't think that overcoming "sin" opens any doors. John 3:3 states that no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. Yet the only clue from the New Testament as to what "born again" actually means is "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit". Does "born again" really mean that we need to empower our spiritual nature to overcome our egocentric materialistic nature. So that the only personal desire that remains within us is to serve God. Perhaps this is why NT quotes its easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Those seeking to be born again have to turn their back to the apple in Genesis.

Perhaps I have not been clear in relating my own interpretation of the NT. You have asked -- "Does "born again" really mean that we need to empower our spiritual nature to overcome our egocentric materialistic nature. So that the only personal desire that remains within us is to serve God."

My answer is yes but in saying yes does not necessarily mean that I can overcome all that my God desires me to overcome. My understanding of my God is that He has a perfect will. He realizes that I cannot become perfect because I have already been imperfect. Regardless of what I overcome, I can never erase that of which I have already done. To be perfect is to have never been imperfect and that is impossible for all of creation.

If God controlled each and every portion of His creation then that creation could be perfect [if He so chose] but in that perfection that creation would not have the freedom to choose between perfection [love] and imperfection [hate]. Without that choice between love and hate consciousness could never be perfect. God did not create all that exists today. His creation procreated all that exists today. This procreation was born from corruption. Therefore the procreation could never be perfect. God then allowed His permissive will. God could never demand perfection from corruption because then God Himself would not be perfect.

We then have God's permissive will to correct our sins. If one is aware of an offense to God and desires to change that offense to God through desire to embrace His perfect will, then that is meant as being born again. Not that we can become perfect but only that we can be justified in His permissive will. We strive to overcome each sin that we learn is offensive to God and in this mindset become born again. Born again is realizing that as we sin it is offensive to God and in realizing this we then try to correct that offense. But this procreation will never become His perfect will.

Becoming born again is only through consciousness of the mind to try to correct further corruption. It is not a badge of pride to be worn in denigrating others but is a life of struggle to correct the evil that is in all of us. That can only be accomplished through love. Love is the only surviving thread of life that will survive death. Even in being born from the Spirit will not eliminate judgment. We all have sinned and will continue to sin even in the kingdom of heaven. Did not Jesus teach that the angels of the Most High sinned and were cast to this earth? Did not Jesus teach that sin lay in wait outside the celestial gates of New Jerusalem? [Revelation 22:14-15] -- Did not Isaiah preach that the children of the new world will die and some perish with sin? [Isaiah 65:20] --
lol you are special --

a reply to: Seede

Thank you for that reply.

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: lightofgratitude

One thing I have struggled with is newborn children. How can they have faith? If they die, how can they not go to heaven? I remember talking to a Baptist about this once. He felt the same way.

Two things
1) a Christian is given a guarantee their child will live after death is before the age of accountability. I was a Catholic and learned I was not saved nor a Christian.

1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

If they are unsaved parents then their children are unclean but because of the saved spouse they are holy.
2) If Jesus Christ died and we are no longer under law but under the age of the grace of God and saved by the gospel of the grace of God Acts 20:24, then it would behoove a God of Grace to send all children under the age of accountability during this age to heaven, because he is a God of Grace. thereby separating a child from his unbelieving parent forever.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

Now that you quote it, I remember it. Thank you for this reply.

As for 2.), it would follow that everyone would go to heaven, because he is a God of Grace.

a reply to: toms54

I qualify Him as being a God of Grace unto those who believe on Christ and Children under the age of accountability and intellectually Disabled. Everyone else can make the choice to believe on Christ or not too.

a reply to: toms54

1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

Don't be misled by the word sanctified. Sanctified is not to say one is or shall be justified. No one is Justified by sanctification. All must be judged and declared justified for salvation by the Christ.

it would follow that everyone would go to heaven, because he is a God of Grace.

Not true at all. Every seed procreated by Adam must be accountable and then judged. As I showed you in Isaiah 65:17-22, and John in Rev. 22:14,15, the unaccountable seed will be restored and given 100 years to become accountable, and then judged. This is the doctrine of Jesus given to James the Nazarene which is the church of the Christ. There is no other way to escape hell and the second death.

a reply to: Seede

I found both responses helpful. In fact I am grateful to find fellow Christians to help me solve this.

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: ChesterJohn

1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

Now that you quote it, I remember it. Thank you for this reply.

As for 2.), it would follow that everyone would go to heaven, because he is a God of Grace.

That would violate his character of Holiness, and Righteousness. I am sure it would violate other of his characteristics as well.

But he has made a way for them to be saved.