USA Health Care Delusion - Are you Afflicted?

a reply to: Realtruth
Once they find out they have you by the gonads they squeeze the poor little bastards for all they're worth. Kind of like the government and taxes.

medical coverage is garbage most people I know if they don't have a kid they opt out and if they do have a kid they have to work 2 jobs just for medical coverage

complete joke, I know people paying 5k deductibles, most are lower though around 2.5k and cost 200 a month I mean what kind of # is that? these are union manufacturing jobs

a reply to: Irishhaf

wiki

20.4 million U.S. veterans in 2016, according to data from the Department of Veterans Affairs, representing less than 10% of the total U.S. adult population.

10% of the total adult population!!!

The bigger question is how easier to set up Universal health care with private insurance if less was spent on war. No?

Remind me when was the last war to help defend the US on home soil?

dod.defense.gov...

$1.3 trillion spending bill on March 23, 2018 that includes a $160 billion boost in defense spending over two years, reversing years of decline and unpredictable funding

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight
Here you go again! Insurance, insurance, insurance> What the hell with insurance. They are just middlemen taking in billions and paying out millions. They do absolutely nothing for your health. They are government protected leeches. No not leeches as they have a medicinal use.

a reply to: ketsuko

breast cancer survival rates are so much better in the US than other countries with the supposedly more humane health care systems.

No, not true


if you look at the chart Britain France Spain Australia have nearly the same survivability rates - western & northern Europe surpass the US.

breast-cancer.ca...

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

which goes back to my point, the fed as it stands right now isnt capable of handling the medical needs of 330 million people since they are failing at handling much less than that.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
i pay more for less.

its the single biggest issue I have.

Except my country is more worried about trolling each other over Trump gotchas and made up sexual assault cases. So i have to just deal with it.

For the past year I haven't had health insurance. My job provides health insurance benefits, but only to permanent employees and I'm a temp (despite working there for 2 years now). I've been hearing for the past 1.5 years that I would go permanent any day now, and that I would then get health insurance coverage. As soon as open enrollment came around for the year, I went to sign up.

Needless to say, the exchange plans in Ohio are awful. The lowest cost plan is actually a gold plan and I have some pre existing conditions that make up the bulk of my expenses. This plan runs $450/month, carries an $8000 deductible, and doesn't cover any medications I currently take. It pays out on 70% of expenses after meeting the deductible. So, in order to save anything at all I have to spend about $14,000/year out of pocket on insurance. Also, anything related to a pre existing condition isn't covered until I've carried their insurance for three years, which is another $3000/year in doctors office visits. So, if I want to be insured under a market plan it's $17,000/year, roughly 1/4 of my take home pay.

The company plan, if/when I am ever allowed onto it, has good coverage, but it's about a $10,000 deductible, and costs $325 per paycheck or $8450 in annual premiums, plus the deductible bringing me to $18,450 or about $20,000 after adding in vision and dental.

There is literally no way to win here. I can pay $20,000 per year every year for the rest of my life, which is probably $1.5 million, or I can save that money and still pay just as much to deal with any illness over the years, including major ones which could be $1 million plus each.

From where I'm sitting, there is no reasonable financial decision to be made. It's a product that I can't live without, and a product that I can't afford to live with.

Most realistic budgets suggest that health care shouldn't be more than 5% of your budget, but I see no way to make it less than 25%, and there is no way to make better purchases to change that, and only limited ways to earn enough extra money to change it.

When it comes to politics, I don't care who fixes it. I just want it fixed.
The Democrats passed the ACA, and premiums still went up.

The Republicans opposed the ACA even though it was originally their plan, and when they had the option to repeal and replace not only did they not have a replacement plan (after claiming for a decade that they did), but they couldn't even repeal because they had to reluctantly admit that for as bad as the ACA is, having nothing was even worse.

I'm not seeing any good guys in this battle except for the people pushing for single payer, but they don't have the support to make that a reality.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Problem with cutting spending, a huge chunk of that does not make it to the boots on the ground, when they cut the budget its done at my level.

At least with the USAF we are working 60+ hours a week to keep 40+ year old planes flying, so I dont know exactly where that huge budget is going but its not getting to us.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: ketsuko
There is a reason why breast cancer survival rates are so much better in the US than other countries with the supposedly more humane health care systems.

You got a link? You made the assertion and I can't be arsed googling it.
It could be interesting reading depending on whatever you link me to.
How about other cancers? Prostrate kills more men than Breast cancer kills women in the UK now.

Survival rates by rank seem to vary from cancer to cancer in each country. I wonder why that is. This isn't quite the link you're looking for, but the US has the best average survival rate across the board followed by Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden.

www.ajmc.com...

originally posted by: ClovenSky
That in itself is free association.

Until you get a tooth ache and you're looking at an out of pocket cost of $5000/tooth in order to not have to pull them out.

Cash payments only work for people who have large amounts of cash laying around. If you're going to have a baby, you're looking at $60,000 out of pocket. Most people don't even have $400.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
Spending on overseas military trying to be the hard man of the world instead of looking after their people.

The defense budget isn't the problem. The defense budget is essentially a welfare program. It keeps people active, healthy, and provides a path to education, and pays them for doing so. Few people are actually combat troops. If we weren't spending that money on defense, we would be spending it much less efficiently as subsidies to the private sector to try and provide the same thing. It's also something of a slush fund for technology research, because it's easier to justify the development of technology for the military, than to justify through other methods.

Also, the military tends to target the lower classes of society, so it's a great tool for economic mobility.

The real problem is that our model is simply outdated. Health care is not a new issue in US politics, back in the early 90's we were trying to change this. As life expectancy has gone up, the chances that people live to get an expensive illness has dramatically risen. Where in the past it was likely that you might only need $200,000 in health care costs over a lifetime (since you dropped dead of a heart attack at 60), now you need $5,000,000 because you survive a heart attack and beat cancer, and now you're living to 90. Now the costs are much higher. Our system is/was very good for routine doctors appointments, but that's not where the expense is.


The US system is the worst in the developed world for its people...500 million people in the EU agree and so does Canada, Australia, New Zealand, even Ghana and Cuba.
Commie bastards all of them, the US insurance system is obviously the best because it protects the individual who can afford it, screw those middle income folk working hard but can't afford it.
Commie bastards in the rest of the world lol.

a reply to: Aazadan

There wouldn't perhaps be any link between insurance and the exorbitant cost of care?

How much does it actually cost for a 20 minute drill and fill procedure? How about just basic dental care? Is there a possibility that these institutions charge as much as insurance is willing to pay?

Maybe if we reformed our bloated system where the few get rich off of the masses, our out of pocket prices would decrease? Maybe even to the point where someone could afford it for the price of a single months insurance cost?

originally posted by: toysforadults
complete joke, I know people paying 5k deductibles, most are lower though around 2.5k and cost 200 a month I mean what kind of # is that? these are union manufacturing jobs

I wish I could get insurance that good.

originally posted by: ClovenSky
How much does it actually cost for a 20 minute drill and fill procedure?

It cost me $4500 out of pocket last January to get a root canal done. No insurance, I paid in cash.

How about just basic dental care? Is there a possibility that these institutions charge as much as insurance is willing to pay?

Dental and vision insurance are typically inexpensive because they work on a different model. They typically use something called coinsurance, which is a program where you pay your premium and have no deductible. Instead, they will pay a percentage of your costs. It's not unusual for dental offices themselves to offer these programs to people who don't have insurance. Typically they'll be something like $500/year and will pay 50% of all dental costs in that time. Of course, there are insurance providers who offer similar packages. The tradeoff being, an office specific plan where you are locked to that office, or a general plan through an insurance company that is more expensive but gives you more choice.

On a cost/benefit analysis, these plans are fantastic (especially since they typically come with 2-4 free cleanings a year, which is almost worth the $500 by itself) but they don't translate to general health care very well. A bad year of dental bills might be $20,000 worth of work, meaning you're paying $10k out of pocket. That's expensive to be sure, but most people can eventually pay off that debt. In general health care though, a bad year could cost several million dollars, so even if 50% is covered, it's still an unmanageable out of pocket debt.
Maybe if we reformed our bloated system where the few get rich off of the masses, our out of pocket prices would decrease? Maybe even to the point where someone could afford it for the price of a single months insurance cost?

a reply to: Aazadan

You certainly have done a lot of research into the different packages out there. I just like to think 'what if' and I am probably off base with most ideas.

But I just wonder if there was no insurance and people had to pay out of pocket, would the prices be forced to come down? If people couldn't afford the current pricing, would dentists/doctor establishments just choose to close shop or would they lower prices to retain customers, thus retaining their business? Maybe they could afford to lower their prices back to reality when they no longer had to comply with all of the rules and regulations of insurance/government.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

For starters, it is a great idea IMO. I don't see how we could ever afford it, and even so I would never trust *this* government to manage it (they're incompetent, very many below average people there)

Although with an ideal set of conditions... like these:

Transparent, Affordable Pricing
Freedom to Choose
True Patient Privacy
No Government Reporting
No Outside Interference
Cash-Based Pricing
Protected Patient-Doctor Relationship
All Patients Welcome

It'd work nicely. However, patient confidentially would have to be absolute. There would be no exceptions, period I don't care if the government needs medical records to pursue the next Hitler or Bin Laden, they need to find another way to do it or they just don't get them.

Otherwise, I can't see Americans having any incentive whatsoever to provide those anti-American scum suckers with any more of our private & confidential data than they already take (at least from those of us who don't encrypt, encrypt, encrypt)

I must point out that government doesn't have its own money, either. They only have our money, just wanted to point that out

originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: Aazadan

You certainly have done a lot of research into the different packages out there. I just like to think 'what if' and I am probably off base with most ideas.

But I just wonder if there was no insurance and people had to pay out of pocket, would the prices be forced to come down? If people couldn't afford the current pricing, would dentists/doctor establishments just choose to close shop or would they lower prices to retain customers, thus retaining their business? Maybe they could afford to lower their prices back to reality when they no longer had to comply with all of the rules and regulations of insurance/government.

Prices would probably come down some, but things cost what they cost. The individual has very little negotiating power, that's why single payer has so many advantages, by taking advantage of an economy of scale lower prices can be negotiated across the board.

a reply to: Realtruth

It’s no secret that the USA government can’t agree on the color of crap, however when it comes to rolling over for corporate interests, they can all agree on the color of green.

Truer words were never spoken.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: CharlesT

Interesting that NZ does it now. Another reason why the richies from the US are buying up in NZ?
They know something we don't.

I cant remember the name but one of the head honchos of a US mercenary co. was allowed quick citizenship after only 3 days stay in NZ.

NZ only extradites capital offense crimes - fraudsters or lobbyists from the US are welcome.

Clinton apparently bought land there as well

www.nzherald.co.nz...

NBC journalist Matt Lauer revealed as wealthy American who bought $13m station

Yeah, we have recently changed the law here to prevent the greedy outsiders from buying up everything.

It's a bit like back in the late 1800's when Aussies bought up twice as much New Zealand land, as there was actual New Zealand land.

We'll let you give us as much money as you want - but just don't expect to get anything much back.

Suckerz!

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe

originally posted by: schuyler
One of the worst mistakes Americans ever made was allowing health care to be a non-taxed "benefit" paid for by employers. Nobody ever griped about that, did they? And mostly it was full coverage.

I'm pretty sure we Americans had nothing to do with it.

Decades ago, I want to say late 50-early 60s--when the unions were coming into their own with the auto industry, the decision was made between union and management to make healthcare a fringe benefit.....rather than go with the other idea of universal care.

Now, I cannot remember which non-fiction book it was, but back then universal care would have been doable.

I heard or read about that many many years ago too. It was when I was in high school, years after it had actually happened. Maybe we were talking about it in Econ or Government in school. I am not sure when or where I had learned about that, it was so long ago.