Who would you rate as the top 3 worst US Presidents? Lincoln, Wilson & FDR

I've been listening to people talk about how Trump will be the worst Pres ever and many say that Obama was the worst. I'm leaving both of those out of my assesment because it isn't yet clear what the full effects of Obama's reigime will be to the nation - I certainly disagree with a GREAT number of htings that he did, I'm not sure I can name any that I agree with TBH. But historically I was thiking about this and I came up with some that I think are very contoversial and those are Abe Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt.

Lincoln because of the Civil war, the way he handled everything leading up to it and the way the South was treated afterwards and during the war - just to name one thing. There are others that don't jive with the historical whitewashing of his presidency once he was declared a saint b/c of his assasination.

Wilson - mainly for the 1913 Federal reserve act and establishing the Income tax

FDR - mainly for helping allow the conditions for Hitler to rise to power (advising Wall street and large corp's like Ford to either back or fund him) then he waited till the Soviets were being crushed by Hitler (and they would have lost) had we not instituted the Lend-Lease act where we "gave" the Soviets large amounts of military equipment (tanks, armored cars/trucks, plains (bomber/fighters), ships, fuel, weapons, artillery, and LOTS of food) - without this help, the Soviets would have stood absolutely NO chance at Stalingrad, but FDR gave then only enough to make a stand and not enough for a decisive victory - so he basically "bleed" both sides of the war - mainly the Soviets, b/c they lost so many men at that long battle. At the same time, the same program was used with the British to supply basically the same/similar weapons but I think they gave a little more / higher-tech, because of their closer relationship. But just as with the Soviets, FDR was VERY slow to act on providing supplies to the OTHER ally who was doing all of the fighting at the time. There were almost daily calls BEGGING the US to send more supplies.

From a historical point of view, IDK why FDR did this, it wasn't based upon humanitarian actions and it is said that his delay in helping the Soviets DIRECTLY lead to the Cold war b/c they understood what had been done and the huge sacrifice that the Russians made to retain Stalingrad (about 6 million Red Army men). Had FDR sent supplies as soon as they were needed (Stalin WAS an Ally for Pete's sake!!) it is very likely that there would have been a very good relationship after the war as the USSR was still a "Socialist Republic" and and wasn't a hard-core communist state (so say some historians from Russia - I think the West had a different view). So IDK if it would have made the cold war a non-issue or not, but I suspect we would have had Russia's support in fighting Japan (finishing that war very quickly w/o the bomb) and we might have been able to completely skip the nuclear arms race and proliferation.

I could write a book on FDR on the things which I think he did that were horrible for our nation and it's citizens, and IDK why he is hailed as a hero. Anyone who has ever read about him and learned his personality he seems like an insufferable azz - kind of like how someone from the British elite would act (I'm talking very top level like a duke or similar).

So who would you pick as the worst 3 presidents and why?

Just why

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I think the only responses you’ll get to this are along the lines of:-

Trump - orange
Trump - man
Trump - bad

Or

Obama - race baiting
Obama - Muslim
Obama - fraud

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

This is bait.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I definitely agree with Lincoln as the South had a right to leave the union under the Constitution and then he basically violated the rights of the Southern states to leave and caused thousands of deaths for no good reason. Wilson I also agree with as he set the ground work for the new world order and sold our sovereignty to the banks.

I don't agree with FDR simply because you could flip your complaints and say he had a good strategy for winning the war by pitting the two sides against each other, however, his New Deal was enough to offset most of that and make him suck again as he screwed up all future generations and turned us into a nation of entitled assholes.

Really all the current Presidents have sucked, but not enough to make them a top three worst. Obama did a lot of damage, but at the end of the day he continued the damage done by others and didn't really do that much new damage other than setting race relations back almost a century.

Trump has been a great President if you simply look at what he has done Vs. his lack of polish as politician and arguably as a human being. His policies are great, but he sometimes makes an ass of himself.

Jimmy Carter was the most ineffective boob of a President we have ever had, but he wasn't actually a bad person just incompetent and a giant wuss.

I guess I actually like your three choices when I look back at key times our country has made wrong turns. I just think FDR sucked for different reasons than you.

Best Presidents are probably Teddy Roosevelt, Washington and Reagan in my opinion. Don't care if you don't agree, but I have my reasons.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

You for sure picked already the winning combo

Obama - clear winner. Communist, divider, ruined economy, regulated to death, etc etc
FDR - allowed Nazis to rise in power, allowed Commies to take over Eastern-Europe, socialistic economic policies let depression and suffering continue longer than any other way
Wilson - surrendered right to print money to private banks, and subjected US economy to their direction

According to the worst Presidents of the Modern Age Quinnipiac Poll :
Obama supplanted Jimmy Carter's long reign .

Well, from a purely historical perspective (and as a non-American looking in), I think that the general consensus is that following were the worst, or at least in the top ten.

Worst - James Buchanan 1857-61 - Poor choice of slavery policies
Second Worst: Warren Harding 1921-23 - Just not very good
Third worst: Millard Fillmore 1850-53 - Another poor slavery president...

Too early to say whether Trump was good or bad to there is no historical place for judgement - same with Obama. In US divisive politics today the "worst" is the person you did not vote for, but most other people did.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Carter,Bush,Obama.

originally posted by: deckdel
a reply to: DigginFoTroof

You for sure picked already the winning combo

Obama - clear winner. Communist, divider, ruined economy, regulated to death, etc etc
FDR - allowed Nazis to rise in power, allowed Commies to take over Eastern-Europe, socialistic economic policies let depression and suffering continue longer than any other way
Wilson - surrendered right to print money to private banks, and subjected US economy to their direction

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or are just very badly informed.

My worst President was President Garfield. Reason? Well he was oranger than Trump and kept trying to send Nermal to Abu Dhabi! And the way he treated Odie? C’mon!! Ridiculous. He was fat, lazy, never did nothin!

My favorite was President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho. He was simply the best!

originally posted by: paraphi
Well, from a purely historical perspective (and as a non-American looking in), I think that the general consensus is that following were the worst, or at least in the top ten.

Worst - James Buchanan 1857-61 - Poor choice of slavery policies
Second Worst: Warren Harding 1921-23 - Just not very good
Third worst: Millard Fillmore 1850-53 - Another poor slavery president...

Too early to say whether Trump was good or bad to there is no historical place for judgement - same with Obama. In US divisive politics today the "worst" is the person you did not vote for, but most other people did.

I'd agree with the three listed above. Buchanan has to be the worst, he utterly failed as President on so many levels and then just sat back and hoped that Lincoln would make the hard choices that he was refusing to face.

On FDR, your prospective may be skewed by time. The Allies did not have control of the seas or the air. The US lost a tremendous amount of supplies in convoys during WW2 see below.

U.S. Merchant Ships Sunk or Damaged in World War II. According to the War Shipping Administration, the U.S. Merchant Marine suffered the highest rate of casualties of any service in World War II. Officially, a total of 1,554 ships were sunk due to war conditions, including 733 ships of over 1,000 gross tons.

On Lincoln: we were a young nation, history lends wisdom. I don’t think Lincoln was completely informed. Both sides were making decisions on slow and old information without the instant communications that we have today.

On Wilson: the Federal Reserve provided the funding for the US to grow into the only surviving super power. Wilson lived through the time period that took us from horseback into the automobile.

Just playing devils advocate, no one has a crystal ball. These guys probably did the best that they could under very trying circumstances. Do you think JFK would have went to Dallas if he know what awaited him? Monday morning quarterbacking is easy. Try to understand why each of these men made the decisions that changed the world.

Wilson campaigned on keeping us out of the war. Then they instituted the draft. Next were the Palmer raids that jailed anyone who spoke out against US involvement in the war.

FDR signed Lease-lease only after Germany attacked Russia. They were not an ally before unlike England. We sent the Soviets incredible amounts of everything it was getting it there that proved difficult as there were 2 ways to get there; arctic convoys to the port of Murmansk or through Iran where they built a railroad just to carry lend lease supplies. We were also trying to build up our own armed forces at the time.

FDR also drug out the Great Depression with many of his policies, allowed Communist infiltrators in to government positions (his VP Wallace was a socialist, Alger Hiss, etc). He was a banker's President who did a great job selling himself to the everyday American. Had they known who he really was he would have been hanged by a mob.

I'd say the three worst presidents are Bill Clinton, George Bush jr. & Obama, because they had the most direct negative impact on our lives. Clinton allowed poor people to get mortgages for houses they couldn't afford, which led to the 2008 financial crisis. Clinton also made it normal for presidents to act unethically in regards to sexual misconduct with women. Clinton also made it normal for politicians to extort money from charities (Haitian relief fund) & get paid large amounts of money for speeches at large corporation/banking events.

George Bush jr. helped turn our country into a police state after 911, by authorizing the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act), formerly known as Emergency War Powers, which have been in place since 1933, when FDR suspended our constitution. Our country has been in continuous war since 1933. A fed member named Prescott Bush even helped fund Hitler & Nazi Germany's rise to power. Every economic downturn & war since 1913 has been caused by the Federal Reseve Bank. George Bush jr is responsible for the War on Terror, which includes the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Syria, etc.. this has also led to the migrant crisis in Europe, which was the plan all along. See CFR meeting transcripts & masonic works by Albert Pike.

Barack Hussein Obama is the crown jewel of the three worst presidents. He has caused the most division in our country in modern times and his presidency led to the election of Donald Trump. He did not denounce riots or acts of violence against white people or police during his presidency. He repealed the Smith Mundt Act in 2013, reallowing the use of government propaganda domestically on U.S. citizens. He reauthorized the NDAA (emergency war powers), which have been in place since 1933 & have kept our constitution suspended. He had far overreaching business regulation, which stifled our economy for eight years. He destroyed our healthcare system with Obamacare. He ran guns across our border to Mexican drug cartels (operation Fast n' Furious). He lied to us about Benghazi. He targeted conservatives via the IRS. He spent more money then all the presidents before him combined. Our National debt is now @ $21 trillion. He had the bogus Iran deal which traded 1 U.S. traitor deserter soldier for 5 Islamic terrorists and pallets of multiple denominations of cash. Iran never held up there end of the deal and continued to research nuclear weapons & the 5 terrorists are now heads of the Taliban's political office in Qatar.

originally posted by: Assassin82
My worst President was President Garfield. Reason? Well he was oranger than Trump and kept trying to send Nermal to Abu Dhabi! And the way he treated Odie? C’mon!! Ridiculous. He was fat, lazy, never did nothin!

My favorite was President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho. He was simply the best!

I'm Not Sure about that.

ganjoa

You know, it's the perspective of time that really differentiates viewpoints here.

In 1960, Lincoln was still saintly, as were Washington and Jefferson (and $100 Ben Franklin was NOT YET revered more than God, Country & Family).

There was a time when political assassinations were as frequent as terrorist bombing attacks:
JFK (63) MalcomX (65) MLK(4/68) JFK (6/68)
- skip to George Wallace attempt(72)
- then we skip to Reagan attempt (85)

SO, definitely not mine, but possibly NPC choices for worst presidents might be:
Washingtom, slave owner, soldier/killer, started this mess called the USA
Jefferson, slave owner, raped his slave women & had offspring, wrote laws with rational logical thought (bad)
Trump, orange man bad

I've seen too much to make the call myself (copout) there's always too much more information to develop, UN has gone from good to bad, globalist is a dirty word, cultural accommodation is the downfall of society not the strength, the Vatican (need I say more), still cant figure why Reagan was so great, or Carter vilified for so long - and how did Bush41 get off without much stink (CIA duh), I Like Ike was largely hero worship, and Truman has been loved & vilified alternately, Nixon was tops on my list as a kid - and still has to be up there for the gold standard fraud, Taft-Hartley, DEA/EPA - then there was Obama-nation, Bush43 - I'd have to build a spreadsheet to evaluate just 20th-21st century presidents!

SO, the jury is still out and I'll wait to see who gets hung before making a pronouncement as to the worst prezs.

ganjoa

(in no particular order)
LBJ. totally mismanaged Viet Nam and set the seeds for future economic disaster with his 'great society'. our cities have never recovered.

Jimmy Carter. Moscow's best friend.

Wilson, as mentioned above. poster child for out-of-touch academia.

Lyndon B
George Dubya
Donald T

Is it coiincidence that they're all a bit republicany ?
Might just be me though ...

originally posted by: Nickn3
On FDR, your prospective may be skewed by time. The Allies did not have control of the seas or the air. The US lost a tremendous amount of supplies in convoys during WW2 see below.

U.S. Merchant Ships Sunk or Damaged in World War II. According to the War Shipping Administration, the U.S. Merchant Marine suffered the highest rate of casualties of any service in World War II. Officially, a total of 1,554 ships were sunk due to war conditions, including 733 ships of over 1,000 gross tons.

On Lincoln: we were a young nation, history lends wisdom. I don’t think Lincoln was completely informed. Both sides were making decisions on slow and old information without the instant communications that we have today.

On Wilson: the Federal Reserve provided the funding for the US to grow into the only surviving super power. Wilson lived through the time period that took us from horseback into the automobile.

Just playing devils advocate, no one has a crystal ball. These guys probably did the best that they could under very trying circumstances. Do you think JFK would have went to Dallas if he know what awaited him? Monday morning quarterbacking is easy. Try to understand why each of these men made the decisions that changed the world.

I'm not saying that any of these men were in enviable positions and maybe any person who would have been president during their term would be viewed in just as bad a light as the current ones are. As for Lincoln, I feel that he was cannonized after the war and assasination in hopes to heal the nation and make it seem like he couldn't make a wrong choice - so hopefully people wouldn't hold as much of a grudge after the war. This "sainthood" continued and even grew over the years to the point where much of what is said about his is myth or at least highly exaggerated. The whole Buchannon vs Lincoln thing we have to look at the congress each president had and IIRC Buchannon couldn't really do a whole lot due to opposition in congress as well as the member states of the South/confederacy - I see it as not so different as today with Trump as if the Dem's held the house and senate and if Cali/Oregon and Texas were trying/threatening succession all at the same time.

Wilson even admitted his lament for signing the act that created the Fed Reserve and said he sold the nation down the river. He was fully aware of what he was doing but didn't have the will to fight against it. There is also MUCH to be said about his handling of WWI, his limp-wristed reaction to the sinking of the Lusitania (which was in violation of international law as it was carrying war munitions - so Germany had rights to sink it). I think he set the tone on how WWII would be handled but supplying both sides as much as possible until making formal declaration with whom to ally. And by "supplying both sides" I mean allowing US companies to continue operating in any of the warring countries, often producing war supplies inside the belligerent country.

As for FDR, I am fully aware of the loss of convoy's but some of that wasn't even while the US was in the war but my point was that had FDR done nothing, Germany would have won on the eastern front "fairly" quickly IMO. Much of the equipment that the Russians ended up building was either copied from equipment sent from the US or b/c US engineers were sent over to help design equipment (The US has never received support like this from other governments, though we do receive some immigrant engineers but those are usually people fleeing communism and or spies). So without the aid, the Russians would have had to surrender BUT they wouldn't have had a decimated male population and their recovery after the war would have been much faster and they probably wouldn't have fallen into such HARD CORE communism under Stalin - I suspect it would have been more along the lines of ardent socialism but with the decimation of the country (land, infrastructure & population), they needed strong central control to get back up and running - thus creating the "red menace" that followed. Who knows, had they lost I doubt China would have followed into communism and we wouldn't be where we are today.

Giving a friend, in battle, help after he has already lost an arm and leg (metaphorically or not) really isn't saving them and if it was possible to aid them before the loss of limbs, there will be resentment when that friend recovers their strength (metaphorically & literally). What I don't understand is if this was somewhat the plan or if it was just extremely bad forethought.