Are Religious Images blessed? Christ portrait Miracle in Wakefield suggests it.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Well, think just for a moment, why No?

After all He is God isn't it?

It was the portrait of his very top rank beloved messenger, that is something even a Muslim possibly may understand.

Do you carry in your wallet or have on your desk a picture of your family, or anybody you love?

Of course I would not say you adore or idolatries that photo but surely you like that image.

Do You know how many volts were on that Lightening?

Millions at a time, there was No way what so ever something there inside could remain intact when everything else was completely consumed by such a power.

Not even a scratch or darkening of any portion of the painting, a miracle.

The Angel of Lightness

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Raggedyman

Why would a magic force field be outside of the possibilities of your mysterious deity. Not that I believe, but i would think that you could accept pretty much any claim made about god.

Do you really believe God sent down a special forcefield to protect that painting, that particular painting and then why would God do that

a reply to: The angel of light

No I havnt any photos in my wallet
I dont know how many volts were in the lightning

Where does it say everything was completely consumed? I didnt read that
Everything else was completely consumed... really?

I went to a fire at Stirling Gate, a business was ablaze, just about everything was scorched, melted or smoke damaged but the phone directory
Did God protect the phone directory?

a reply to: Raggedyman

Yes, all the media reports are rigorously saying that nothing else survived the fire and the painting was not only still there but absolutely intact.

Was shifting gate a Church?

Is any place where a fire occur Holy or consacrated to be a place of worship or prayer?

Was any fire triggered by the power of an electric storm?

Are All fires reaching a 7 alarm level?

Come on your "counter example" is pretty vague, circumvent and belonging to a very different story.

St John 3:14-15, “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.”

The Angel of Lightness

considering that some of windows and curtains are still intact the fire didn't destroy everything. if curtains can survive then so can a painting. no miracle happened. and why would Jesus want to save a painting of a white guy

a reply to: cancerslug

If there was a fire would you be considering saving a portrait of yourself
It just isnt common sense

Though as Woodie has pointed out, not much about faith is common sense

originally posted by: The angel of light

- The only object of the Church that was not destroyed was neither a Bible neither a hymns book nor a prayers book, but the painting.


What could be the possible meaning in behind this unlikely fact?

Not the first time. There are other incidents similar to this. Example, Shroud of Turin survive pre-fire 1165. Scorched portrait of Jesus saved from Tabernacle 2010 and lone Jesus statue survived the Tennessee wildfires 2016.


What could be the possible meaning in behind this unlikely fact?

An attempt to deceive you into worshiping idols.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Raggedyman

Why would a magic force field be outside of the possibilities of your mysterious deity. Not that I believe, but i would think that you could accept pretty much any claim made about god.

Do you really believe God sent down a special forcefield to protect that painting, that particular painting and then why would God do that

No, of course not. I’m wondering why you don’t believe it.

originally posted by: EasternShadow

originally posted by: The angel of light

- The only object of the Church that was not destroyed was neither a Bible neither a hymns book nor a prayers book, but the painting.


What could be the possible meaning in behind this unlikely fact?

Not the first time. There are other incidents similar to this. Example, Shroud of Turin survive pre-fire 1165. Scorched portrait of Jesus saved from Tabernacle 2010 and lone Jesus statue survived the Tennessee wildfires 2016.

What could be the possible meaning in behind this unlikely fact?

An attempt to deceive you into worshiping idols.

I am always in awe of carved rocks that don't burn, amazing the bricks behind didn't burn either
Maybe the bricks are holy

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Raggedyman

Why would a magic force field be outside of the possibilities of your mysterious deity. Not that I believe, but i would think that you could accept pretty much any claim made about god.

Do you really believe God sent down a special forcefield to protect that painting, that particular painting and then why would God do that

No, of course not. I’m wondering why you don’t believe it.

Really
You want a theological discussion with me
We both know it's not worth it

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Raggedyman

Why would a magic force field be outside of the possibilities of your mysterious deity. Not that I believe, but i would think that you could accept pretty much any claim made about god.

Do you really believe God sent down a special forcefield to protect that painting, that particular painting and then why would God do that

No, of course not. I’m wondering why you don’t believe it.

Really
You want a theological discussion with me
We both know it's not worth it

You have a lot of odd beliefs, and we both know that i don’t believe in god, but you seem sure that god can’t do this. When you obviously believe that god can do anything, while also believing that sometimes, god does weird things. Why is this beyond it’s ability?

a reply to: Woodcarver

God has given us freewill, He can't in most cases then deny freewill
Can He save a painting, yeah but as I asked you, why would He? You didn't answer my question
Really think God cares about a painting a statue an icon

a reply to: EasternShadow

You are really funny, with all respect but nothing you say debunk the original hypothesis suggested by the thread, to the contrary reinforces it.

Do you realize what kind of objects are you referring to?

You are calling others to use their common sense, you have talked about one of the 3 fires that historically the burial shroud of Jesus has survived!

That is of course other religious object that miracolously has survived destruction, but moreover it is perhaps the most important Holy relic of the world!!

Please don't be ridiculous Raggedyman, you are loosing credibility:

The bricks can not be reduced as ashes, as a painting or a shroud certainly can, but they are visibly damaged in its original aspect, darkened by the event something didn't occur with the portrait.

The Angel of Lightness

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Woodcarver

God has given us freewill, He can't in most cases then deny freewill
Can He save a painting, yeah but as I asked you, why would He? You didn't answer my question
Really think God cares about a painting a statue an icon

You know i don’t believe in any of it. I think you’re all weird.

a reply to: The angel of light

Could be!
mtncatholic.com...

About the Tilma upon which is the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe:

It appears to be virtually indestructible. Two distinct events have happened involving the tilma over the centuries, one occurring in 1785 and the other in 1921. In 1785, a worker was cleaning the glass encasement of the image when he accidentally spilled 50% nitric acid solvent onto a large portion of the image itself. The image and the rest of the tilma, which should have been eaten away almost instantly by the spill, reportedly self-restored over the ensuing 30 days, and remains unscathed to this day aside from small stains on the parts not bearing the image. In 1921, an anti-clerical activist hid a bomb containing 29 sticks of dynamite in a pot of roses and placed it before the image inside the Basilica at Guadalupe. When the bomb exploded, most everything from the marble altar rail & floor just feet away from the blast, to windows 150 meters away were broken…yet the image and the glass surrounding it remained untouched. The only damage that occurred in close proximity to the tilma was a hefty brass crucifix, which was twisted and bent back by the blast.

a reply to: TonyS

Yes, that is Historic, the Tilma of Juan Diego is another major relic of Christendom that have overcome extreme proofs that show it is actually Holy, blessed by divine power coming from Above.

Analysis of that piece of cloth by NASA experts have revealed that the image is not made by any artistic technique known by the time of the apparition or even in our time.

Thanks for the comment,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

cruxnow.com...


When the image was analysed by someone whom knew music not only were the stars of the very date the image appeared incorporated into it but also a melody was found in the pattern of those stars.
That melody was made into the music used in this video.


It has survived being exposed to the element's for hundreds of years until only recently within this century when it was finally put into a protective case, it has survived those century's despite being essentially cactus paper cloth that usually only last's a few short years four or five before falling apart or being eaten by moth's or mold.
The alter was blown up beneath it during mass during one of Mexico's many turbulent revolution's yet the image was unscathed and despite the alter being blown apart no one in the packed church was hurt by the blast.

The image colors are not visible until you are AWAY from the cloth and only modern acrylic's unknown at the time of it's creation could even come close to replicating the color's.

It has been linked to numerous miracles and is itself I am absolutely certain a miracle, perhaps even a living image since it seem's that the colors are not bound to the fibers of the cloth but float a few micron's above them?.

Even replica's of the image are linked to miracle's, one of the earliest was said to be prayed to by the christian admiral before a battle with a far larger ottoman empire fleet in the Mediterranean, it was the battle that ENDED ottoman rule of the sea's.
en.wikipedia.org...

Here is an early church in Jerusalem were it is more than possible that St James and even the Theotokas may have prayed.

a reply to: Klassified

Why would God bless something he expressly forbade in the old testament? Somewhere in Exodus I think. No images of anything in heaven, earth, or in the waters. Found it...Exodus 20

Different god. They call it living in Grace not under "the Law"

I mean a new sanitized Jehovah masquerading as the Lord with the help of the Old Roman Empire.

Ya can't beat a State sponsored religion mandated by "the Sword" to keep the sheep in line.

a reply to: The angel of light

You are referring perhaps to demonic idols of ancient times when Christ didn't even born yet. Be careful it may be really a grave mistake to confuse what is Holy with what it was Not.

NO

And perhaps you are conveniently overlooking facts due to your bias.


en.wikipedia.org...

Traditional explanations for Byzantine iconoclasm have sometimes focused on the importance of Islamic prohibitions against images influencing Byzantine thought. According to Arnold J. Toynbee,[2] for example, it was the prestige of Islamic military successes in the 7th and 8th centuries that motivated Byzantine Christians to adopt the Islamic position of rejecting and destroying devotional and liturgical images. The role of women and monks in supporting the veneration of images has also been asserted. Social and class-based arguments have been put forward, such as that iconoclasm created political and economic divisions in Byzantine society; that it was generally supported by the Eastern, poorer, non-Greek peoples of the Empire[3] who had to constantly deal with Arab raids. On the other hand, the wealthier Greeks of Constantinople and also the peoples of the Balkan and Italian provinces strongly opposed Iconoclasm.[3] In recent decades in Greece, Iconoclasm has become a favorite topic of progressive and Marxist historians and social scientists, who consider it a form of medieval class struggle and have drawn inspiration from it. Re-evaluation of the written and material evidence relating to the period of Byzantine Iconoclasm by scholars including John Haldon and Leslie Brubaker, has challenged many of the basic assumptions and factual assertions of the traditional account.

ancient times when Christ didn't even born yet

You cant have it both ways for your convenience - you're denying the Trinity ........tsk tsk tsk

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Woodcarver

God has given us freewill, He can't in most cases then deny freewill
Can He save a painting, yeah but as I asked you, why would He? You didn't answer my question
Really think God cares about a painting a statue an icon

No BUT Angel's do and as for God if he gave that miracle then YES because that makes it into an Angel itself, what is an angel you think of a fluffy winged baby headed cherub, maybe some are but an angel is a Messenger of God.
Also make no mistake about the power of a blessing especially for the eastern orthodoxy which holds them even more dear than the catholic faith does, these icon's are regarded as sacred relic's and can only be made by monk's or the devoutly faithful and often are then linked to miracles ranging from healing's to tears coming from the icon's.





Now just to get this right to those that are claiming these are Idolatery, they are not they are Iconism which mean's they are NOT god's to us just images that can act as angels of grace, how well the same as a word printed on paper can they convey a message and remind of the story's from the bible to those that can not or do not read, they are in essence words as images.