The political division has made everyone loose focus of what is really important

Each party has become so obsessed with attacking the other or defending their party that they have lost track of how they felt and what they wanted in mid 2000's when most everyone felt that there needed to be a BIG change in the government - largely due to the Patriot act and the fact we knew there was spying (on US citizens) going on. Most everyone thought government had gotten too big or they were doing a pee-poor job in almost every catagory. This is the reason we had Ron Paul running, the Tea Party, and the reason Obama was elected (backlash for Bush and the Wars) - even a large # of republicans moved away from the party. Since 2008 there has been NOTHING but divisive politics and media 24/7/365. And then we had Occupy and the 08 crash, bailouts (which made everyone mad except the very rich).

So now everyone is at each others throats and have lost track that most everyone would agree that the government is failing in almost every catagory. Show me one, just ONE, government agency that runs well. I think they focused on the divisive politics and media stories because they were afraid that people would find common ground and agree that the government was out of control and maybe a "revolution" would happen or a major re-design of the government would happen (constitutionally).

I think we need to start talking to people across the "isle" and figure out what we agree upon. If liberals want "Open borders" and conseratives don't - then a compromise would be a speedy immigration system, possibly apply online or whatever.

When sides don't agree we can't just keep stating what we want or don't want, we need to explain WHY, how it will work, why it is a benefit, who will benefit, etc - and do the same for the opposite side - why we oppose it & what we want - etc.

Most could all agree that there is massive government waste and no accountability for it. I have an example going on in my back yard with a state road crew (they have 5x the workers, 3x the equipment and have completed 1/2 the work in 3x the amount of time as what was just done a couple years ago by a private contractor - same exact job!). Things like this need to be addressed b/c there is PLENTY of $ to make things work, but gov workers have NO incentive to do their jobs. There are PLENTY of young people who would take these jobs and actually do them, but we have people who have been there 20-30 years and don't care. It's time to fire these people (loose their pensions for fraudulent work for that time frame) and hire people who will do the job.

What are topics we all think need addresses, even if we have different views. Even if gov doesn't handle the topic (like medical care), it can be discussed and find out what isn't working. We can't start to fix this country if we don't know what is broken and what people have experienced in these areas.

Great point - we must not fight against each other, but fight against those who are making us fight.

This involves breaking down that solid wall in our minds which makes us dissonant over any opinion or idea raised by the opposition. Most people cannot do this, as evidenced on our forum.

Let's start by looking at things we do agree on.

I think both sides (I can't believe TPTB have narrowed the whole of the USA down to just 2 sides - completely laughable) would agree that bureaucracy stands in the way of a better life - both for the average Joe or Jane trying to better themselves and make some money but also for governemtns who want to enact change -both sides.

Prioritizing crimes and focusing police power - in the UK both sides agree that the police are not focusing their powers in the right direction, the gov has forced targets and cut spending (let's not get into arguments of who cut the spending).

So there we maybe have two points, there are going to be many more. I can't help feeling though that we are going to fall back into arguing when we eventually discuss 'how' to solve these problems.

TPTB have trapped us in an eternal roundabout of meaningless debate (it's not even bloody debate anymore).

a reply to: and14263

Thank you for the reply and your topics of problems!

When we come to the point of discussing how to fix them, yes there will be some issues but I think I have a way to mitigate a large part of the problem and most everyone has incentive to work towards a common solution because as it stands now, EVERYONE but the very rich is loosing BIG. Even if you don't get 100% of what you want, or even if we aren't running at 10mph, maybe we can settle for getting 20-40% or moving towards it at 2-4mph (representing compromise) instead of going in the complete opposite direction of where we want to go.

I think we need to focus on schooling and HHS (Health & Human Services). We need to figure out a new educational system for K-12 and comlpetely re-do the medicare/medicade system and how they charge, get paid, and how/who is covered/coverable - as well as how it is administered.

We also need to look at the prison system, especially for-profit prisions/private prisons.

The US government and MSM has been waging a war on the US citizens for 25-45 years (45 years if you go back to the founding of DEA and mass incarceration for drugs) and there has been a lot of damage due to this and that is why it is so easy to divide everyone. We have all lost something in one way or another, whether directly or opportunity and we are all mad at who the MSM & government has told us "is at fault" when it is actually THEY who are at fault.

Although I somewhat appreciate a desire to mediate things. I personally want things fixed, not accommodated. This always seems to be the way for too many issues.

I am tired of that, I want real fixes, not wishy washy feel good programs.

And, if any program is found to be dis-functional then it should be removed from existence.

I don't think that those on the left understand the fatigue and resentment they have been causing over the last 40 years.

And I think those in the middle are sort of like children in the middle of a viscous divorce.

So sorry, guys, mommy and daddy no longer wish to hold hands. Especially daddy (conservative) because mommy has slept with everything that moves.

originally posted by: Fools
Although I somewhat appreciate a desire to mediate things. I personally want things fixed, not accommodated. This always seems to be the way for too many issues.

I am tired of that, I want real fixes, not wishy washy feel good programs.

And, if any program is found to be dis-functional then it should be removed from existence.

I don't think that those on the left understand the fatigue and resentment they have been causing over the last 40 years.

And I think those in the middle are sort of like children in the middle of a viscous divorce.

So sorry, guys, mommy and daddy no longer wish to hold hands. Especially daddy (conservative) because mommy has slept with everything that moves.

I agree with you 100% and support the fixes issue. IDK if it can be done with the current government, especially with the career politicians and the unlimited amount for campaign contributions by businesses and such.

What I think is most important is that this is what people realize, is that the gov isnt' working to fix things, but focusing on political divide and making themselves look good or look like the victim, so they can push off the fact that they aren't working. This is why I think a DRASTIC, MAJOR change is in need, like a redesign of the government in some manner.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I think you mean talk to the people across the pond.

Anyways, yeah, I think most of us have already come to these conclusions months ago. Thanks for trying though.

originally posted by: hombero
a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I think you mean talk to the people across the pond.

Anyways, yeah, I think most of us have already come to these conclusions months ago. Thanks for trying though.

What do you mean across the pond? I know what pond means, but why talk to them?

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Thank you for a most balanced OP. It is so interesting how easy it is to get drawn into this stuff. I have never been really political in the past. I find this to be a sort of addiction, and you are right, not a very healthy one.

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof

originally posted by: Fools
Although I somewhat appreciate a desire to mediate things. I personally want things fixed, not accommodated. This always seems to be the way for too many issues.

I am tired of that, I want real fixes, not wishy washy feel good programs.

And, if any program is found to be dis-functional then it should be removed from existence.

I don't think that those on the left understand the fatigue and resentment they have been causing over the last 40 years.




And I think those in the middle are sort of like children in the middle of a viscous divorce.

So sorry, guys, mommy and daddy no longer wish to hold hands. Especially daddy (conservative) because mommy has slept with everything that moves.

I agree with you 100% and support the fixes issue. IDK if it can be done with the current government, especially with the career politicians and the unlimited amount for campaign contributions by businesses and such.

What I think is most important is that this is what people realize, is that the gov isnt' working to fix things, but focusing on political divide and making themselves look good or look like the victim, so they can push off the fact that they aren't working. This is why I think a DRASTIC, MAJOR change is in need, like a redesign of the government in some manner.

Term limits would be a start. Minimizing the cushy benefits these politicians get would encourage people that are more sincere about doing their jobs to want to do it.

Great post DigginFoTroof .... The public and media has got so hyper aware hyper sensitive that I got a feeling that a lot of issues that were compromised in the past aren't now because its broadcast 24/7 and any politician that tries to reach across the aisle get pummeled from the pundits and the fringe on both sides as weak, traitor etc. I like to believe we all have more in common but its off differences that are getting highlighted and scrutinized to the Nth degree. Number one the media loves the turmoil nothing sells better, think both sides are being manipulated to the extreme. Not to mention this political fascination had expanded into age groups that used to not give these issues a moments thought, are know fighting and protesting, throw in the anarchists that just want too see it all burned to ground. The high emotions are so off kilter its just seems like we will never collectively get back to an even keel.

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof

The political division has made everyone loose focus of what is really important

Vilifying and stereotyping migrants as criminals like in your other thread? Painting a picture of the migrant caravan as an unruly mob, in spite of the kids in diapers among them?