Random number generator - a "new" idea

Great Idea I think , one could also use the static noise of analog radio.

But Just ask the NSA to generate a nothing up your leaves RND number. Eliptic curves might do the trick too. Or a twisted mersenne prime twister. BTW ... all is a kind of perlin noise , and if one finds gods pseudo rnd generator algoritm one can predict the future.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Are you making a lottery winner?

a reply to: llama

Someone did that already, then informed that lottery that he had successfully predicted the previous three draws. Not sure that's the same route I'd have gone.

originally posted by: wtfatta
a reply to: llama

Someone did that already, then informed that lottery that he had successfully predicted the previous three draws. Not sure that's the same route I'd have gone.

Sure, but did he really pick the three previous lottery draws, or did he just say he did?

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Current mouse pointer position would be more random since people are connected to the quantum reality of existence with their hand motions.

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I think hardware to capture it is available, or used to be.

Thermal noise from random electron motion in wires is the best bet. Any external signal, image can be tampered with. Even sampling the white noise from random radio frequencies could be tampered with using signal generators.

So having a little shielded chip that generates a bit of heat then measures fluctuations in temperature or voltage is the
best bet. Some systems actually used the different speeds between a large number of identical circuits.

Traditional digital logic methods like polynomial counters. They used that for sound generation with the early 8-bit computers (De Re Atari is online).

The Random Number Generator is based on the clock timer embedded in the board
The reason it was chosen , it is based on milliseconds .
Unfortunately , that only gives 1,000 possible outcomes
Yet , with the number seed the probability decreases.
Almost a true "random"
With a 6 sided dice , you have six possibilities. Same with a randomly generated number.
And , with modern computers , you would have to be really , really quick to know the outcome
Not so much with the earlier systems from the 70s and early 80s
I used to cheat a game once upon a time by timing the enter key....
Story for another day...

Most of the available hash functions seem to be pretty effective..
How do we distribute the key material (without being cost prohibitive)?
RDTSC will capture heat noise across clock boundaries which passes most random tests and doesn't require huge machine resources.
Again how do you distribute the keys?

Using quantum state of photons seems hard to beat.

Back in the old days... when Radar jamming was developed during the war, the best high power, high bandwidth noise generator was... a photomultiplier tube operated with a low DC light source. Its an extremely good white noise generator.

originally posted by: roadgravel
Using quantum state of photons seems hard to beat.

As I mentioned above, in practical use today are cameras watching the motions of lava lamps.

I'm not sure if it is any more random or any less random ("more" or "less" for crypto purposes) than the quantum state of photons, but it seems to be something that can be relatively easily implemented.

Why a Wall Full of Lava Lamps Is a Terrific Random Number Generator

a reply to: stormcell

"The structure of the ionized discharge across the gap is
highly erratic, with constant current fluctuations
occurring within plasma. These fluctuations occur
rapidly, with a frequency content that covers nearly the
entire EM spectrum. In 1887 Heinrich Hertz referred to
a spark gap as an “oscillator.” "

Spark gaps are pretty random, in how they fire across electrodes. Even when you're using things like lasers to direct them, they'll never be 100% predictable.

www.arrl.org...

EDIT: let me know if anyone comes up with a way to predict the noise and electromagnetic waves that a spark gap generates

what if there Is No true randomness!
how else could we have life?

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

42 is the answer considering, life, the universe, and everything seem pretty random.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

There's actually ways to make truly random numbers already. You can buy add in cards for desktop PC's that can do it, alongside several other techniques. The problem is that random numbers aren't actually ideal for most computing purposes. Computers are deterministic, so having deterministic methods of generating numbers works far better most of the time. It's really only a handful of applications that want truly random input.

a reply to: Aazadan

The number generator cards are essentially mechanical thought and generate a random number from a physical process as opposed to electronic, are they not?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Aazadan

The number generator cards are essentially mechanical thought and generate a random number from a physical process as opposed to electronic, are they not?

I'm not sure exactly how they work, I do know they're non deterministic though.

It's really only a handful of applications that want truly random input.

And for those processes, truly random data prevents the outcome from being predictable. That the purpose.

a reply to: Aazadan

The point is through that a random number generation system based on an algorithm can be considered to be deterministic hence it is not random really.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Toronto man cracked the code to scratch lottery tickets

There are several other stories, but this is the one I was referring to. It may not be a number lottery, but it still used a random number generator.