Tyndall AFB suffers massive damage; including irreplaceable F-22s

a reply to: mightmight

Except for the really minor fact that they AREN'T combat coded. Two of the three squadrons there are Block 20s that are not going to get upgraded because they use them for pilot training.

As pointed out, this makes something like twice that we've had bases hammered by storms like this. Those are pretty damn good odds for leaving them there.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: RadioRobert

No it isn't, but you're not going to fly an NMCM bird even in an evacuation. Thank god we have so many people explaining how they screwed up and they should have done so much more.

Yeah, why fly out a strategic asset we only have a handful of if the AN/APG-77 or th RWR keep defaulting. Get real.

I said, I don't know what the underlying issue was, so I don't know that the guys at Tyndall could have done any better. But like I said, if you can't get more than 30% of the fleet off the ground in several days, there are heads that need to roll somewhere. If Tyndall couldn't do any better with what they had, then the people upstream allocating and planning should be on the block.

You know what, you're right. You guys are so much smarter than I am. They're complete morons for putting them there.

a reply to: Zaphod58

It was the EU's fault we hacked HAARP and caused it all so we can invade from the East coast

originally posted by: Zaphod58
You know what, you're right. You guys are so much smarter than I am. They're complete morons for putting them there.

You do this every time your answer doesn't line up with reality.

a reply to: RadioRobert

Bottom line is somebody in the chain of command made the decision that for safety of flight reasons they could not be moved.


Now I don't know if it was mechanical or lack of qualified people to fly them all out, but it doesn't really matter because safety of flight is the only reason they wouldn't move them because the commander has to wonder if he/she just screwed up their own promotion chances if the planes left behind are written off.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Right. Which goes back to over 30% couldn't get in the air. It hasn't a thing to do with being fully mission capable or those rates. It is 30% of airframes (at least , since I haven't seen another 10% accounted for anywhere) could not be put in the air in an emergency situation.

And if Tyndall could have done nothing better (which I admitted from post one is possible) then somewhere up the chain, some pencil -pusher has made decisions that left those people in that spot. Someone is accountable when 30% of your fleet can't get off the ground over the course of several days.

a reply to: RadioRobert

No, I do this every time I'm sick of arguing with people that think they know better than the people making the decisions, despite the fact that they weren't there. I really don't feel like going around for page after page. You said it yourself, you DON'T know why they were left, but somehow you know better than everyone involved and have decided heads need to roll.

They had less than 36 hours to get those aircraft flyable. How many of those were cann birds, how many were in phase, how many broke during the evacuation, what was the problem with the broke jets. Without knowing any of that, you've decided someone screwed up. Maybe you're right, maybe someone did. Or maybe it was a matter of them having a situation where more aircraft than usual broke at just the wrong time. You have the luxury of Monday morning quarterbacking this, and are doing it with a tiny fraction of information.

And with that, I'm done. I'm NOT going to sit here for page after page going on about this. So have fun.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Someone screwed up somewhere if 30% of your fleet can't be put in the air after 36 hours in an emergency. Sorry that upsets you.

People or planes. Lives of the service members or some very expensive, exotic jets??

a reply to: RadioRobert
Robert purely out of interest, how many aircraft have you worked on over the years as a maintenance engineer, commercial or military?

Tyndall AFB is one of the most important in the continental US.This scenario has played out many times before from Hurricane Andrew to Clark AFB being half buried by ash from Mt Pinatubo and procedures and protocols have been refined because of them. As the storm was approaching there would have been large numbers of phone calls, conference calls and video conferences. The exact status of each aircraft would have been known on a run sheet and at each shift changeover there would be a shift brief detailing the status of any aircraft that was U/S or in a check and what had to be done to get them airborne. As the storm got closer there would have been reports every hour or two regarding what could and could not be got out in time. Decisions would be made to abandon aircraft that would take too long, require too much manpower, or could not be rectified in time due to nil stock of flight critical parts. Its completely normal in both civilian and military circles for some spare parts to take days, weeks, or occasionally months to obtain. And even once you have it, it needs to be fitted and depending on how deeply buried it is, everything else put back on top. If engines were pulled they need to be refitted, leak checked, and engine runs performed and engine changes can be manpower intensive and take hours. And what you are probably not even considering is that you are asking the same level of base manpower to do maybe up to a months worth of work in a day and a half, without any kind of breaks or sleep, so no regard for their well being or consideration of potentially disastrous fatigue related mistakes. Because 36 hours isn't enough time to get more manpower flown in and brought up to speed on what is what and where. And whats more you dont even know how much time you exactly have because storms are only predictable for a short window, they can slow down or speed up dramatically just like their intensity. Seriously, its a training and maintenance base, they are supposed to have aircraft down.

Thats like yelling at Delta Airlines for having lots of aircraft on the ground at Atlanta Hartsfield-Jackson, or British Airways at Cardiff airport.

a reply to: thebozeian

How possible is it to build hangars which are designed for this sort of thing? Do they exist?

a reply to: thebozeian

I've spent plenty of time on flight lines. I don't turn wrenches on hydraulics or engines, but I'm pretty familiar with the ins and outs. And I'm fine with triaging the fleet, but there is still something fundamentally wrong if you can't get that many people off the ground in 36 hours.
I'm familiar with Tyndall. I've visited the WEG there on occasion. It's an ACC base, not a training base, though type transition training does take place there still. It's not doing depot level fleetwide repairs. It's not "supposed to" have 30% of the fleet unflyable.

a reply to: C0bzz

Not really. Even the hardest shelter taps out at somepoint. Even if you built concrete bunkers as hangars, you'd have to have people, gennies, and pumps to keep the water out.

Me thinks the Israeli air force got some new stealth planes by stealth to take care of those pesky s300 missiles

originally posted by: stonerwilliam
Me thinks the Israeli air force got some new stealth planes by stealth

to take care of those pesky s300 missiles

Not a chance those airframes will go unaccounted for and for A2G the F35 is the go to which Israel already has. Most of the raptor airframes will be recoverable and those that aren’t will be holding down sand in the boneyard.

a reply to: BigDave-AR

Stranger things have happened ! what the Israeli government wants it gets by hook or by crook

Gods airforce is still the most feared. Glad no one was hurt.

It sucks we lost so many expensive planes. Now we have to buy more...and waste more tax money.

originally posted by: tadaman
Gods airforce is still the most feared. Glad no one was hurt.

It sucks we lost so many expensive planes. Now we have to buy more...and waste more tax money.

Not when you own the printing presses nothing is a bummer , just put it on the bill son

originally posted by: tadaman
Gods airforce is still the most feared. Glad no one was hurt.

It sucks we lost so many expensive planes. Now we have to buy more...and waste more tax money.

It’s not that simple the F22 production has long been shut down and to bring it back for a run of less than 20 airframes would be economically untenable to say the least, if the production line was brought back it would have to be to make more airframes than just replacing the lost airframes to be viable IMO.

Stoner- Whatever you say man “Dave’s not here (to argue) man”!