The US Army says its new guns will 'penetrate any known body armour'

Cool! I can't wait to see this in civilian hands (Tongue firmly placed in cheek).....cough. Sorry no picture

The U.S. Army's chief of staff said Monday that its 6.8mm next-generation weapons, slated to replace the M249 squad automatic weapon and the M4A1 carbine, will be able to penetrate any body armour on the battlefield.

"It will fire at speeds that far exceed the velocity of bullets today, and it will penetrate any existing or known ... body armour that's out there," Gen. Mark Milley told Military.com at the 2018 Association of the United States Army's Annual Meeting and Exposition. "What I have seen so far from the engineers and the folks that put these things together, this is entirely technologically possible. ... It's a very good weapon."

News Source

nah never mind

Good for them...They have needed a weapon that could reach out and touch someone and especially something squad equipped that could penetrate body armor much less a darn cinder block.

I just hope this new weapon does not exhibit all the teething pains the M-16 went through in Nam..

a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses

Sounds like you'd need monster dudes to lug around big mags etc of that ammo... with a generation of beta males walking crooked because their pants are so skinny, or obese couch potatoes, sounds like as reality as a rainbow fantasy land complete with actual unicorns.

a reply to: CaptainBeno

Lots of bragging up a weapon that does not yet exist.

Believe it when I see it.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

It would help if you could tell me whether you are jive talking or if you're seriously trying to shame me in some way.

Hmmm, should make'em even more deader.

a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses

The M855a1 and M89a1 5.56 and 7.62nato respectively are already real strong penetrators with better terminal ballistics than prior projectile designs. I’m all for moving to a 6.8 platform but I don’t think penetration is the main advantage for going with an all new caliber. I got my hands on some M855a1 and it’s expensive as sin but the stuff is damn near unstoppable.

a reply to: BigDave-AR

Actually... 855a1 is very much SAPI / ESAPI safe. I have the peo soldier presentations that make this extremely clear. However, that could be changed pretty easily with slight alteration of the EPR projo...

Also note i didn't say LEVEL 3 NIJ safe, it's a very key distinction. Both 855a1 and 80a1 should pen ratnik armor for instance to varying ranges.

Also of note, they're way exxagerating the MV increase expected. The current NGSAR solicitation for both the AR (automatic rifle) & gp gun is a 125 grain projectile at 3500 fps mv from a 14 or so inch bbl with integral suppression etc. (This reguires 80,000-100,000 psi peak pressures)

It's actually gonna be a massive issue and a huge step backwards if this gets adopted. The reason being is that for one a polymer case CT LSAT carbine based gun will have a 20 round max mag capacity!

Apparently a homologue of the 7.62 ADVAP projectile in 6.8 would coincidentally weigh right about 125 grains... (In the gun world a homologue is an exactly scaled down or up projectile designed to fit a different bore diameter than the original)

Finally, make no mistake, this is GD's competition to lose since no one else can come close to the weapon / ammo combo they have. (Especially since 1 loaded 6.8 CT round will apparently weigh the same as a brass case m855a1 round)

This is a disaster waiting to happen in every way though honestly.

20 round mags are insufficient, and realistically there's plain better ways to deal with level 3 nij + armored up foes from 200-600 meters other than bullets. Out to 200, even 5.56 is plenty sufficient to deal with what's needed. A polycase 5.56 and 7.62 /militarized 6.5 creedmore 7.62 replacement are sadly more than good enough for the foreseeable future.

Not trying to rain on parades here, but NGSAR has went full retard and will get cancelled unless it's heavily revised.

Looks like the military is planning on buying a lot of these. I wonder how reliable these guns are going to be in the field? Are they way more expensive than the other guns, what is the price of ammo. I am kind of concerned how these will hold up in the field, it wouldn't be the first time that the government bought a pile of lemons.

The US military has to know, one day they will be on receiving end of weapons like that, if they start using them in combat.

a reply to: CaptainBeno

Thats so cool -

Now wait for civilian Police forces to want to include it in their arsenal.

Nothing like bringing super weapons out onto the streets to quell civil disobedience.

originally posted by: Echo007
The US military has to know, one day they will be on receiving end of weapons like that, if they start using them in combat.

Because no other military can make progress in weapons systems?

Well unless they have figured out some alloy that is going to keep the barrels from being worn out quickly, these could become very expensive to maintain? What is the expected FPS of the rounds? The 22/250 or 22 hornet are both about 3,800-4,000fps and the barrels are often burnt up within a few hundred rounds (under 1,000).

I would think that the speeds could be reached easily at 5-6,000fps with some alternatives to blackpowder and supposedly Russia is working on the same thing at the same time, which seems kind of conspiratorial and possibly a collective effort.

a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses

IgnoranceIsntBlisss usually takes a swipe at our overlords. If he meant it for you he would have told you.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses

Sounds like you'd need monster dudes to lug around big mags etc of that ammo... with a generation of beta males walking crooked because their pants are so skinny, or obese couch potatoes, sounds like as reality as a rainbow fantasy land complete with actual unicorns.

Thats probably why they made those goofy looking exoskeletons

a reply to: roguetechie

Im going to assume you have no combat training. In Afganistan most firefights are at 300 meters or more. If they are waring body armor 5.56 doesn't even cause them to flinch. Luckily AK 47s have a longer range but accuracy is terrible. But even getting hit by a lucky shot at 400 meters will kill you. To say we don't need a rifle that can say hello at 500 meters. Desert warfare is entirely different then say jungle.

As for the new rounds telescoped ammunition has huge advantages. One the new 6.5-millimeter round has 300 percent more energy than the standard U.S. Army bullet. Its available in 5.5,6.5 and 7.5. The military is thinking use the 6.5 for all around use. Now there is a reason they use 20 round mags but has nothing to do with weight.

The reason for the 20 round magazines is too long a magazine blocks the user from shooting while prone. However 30 round mags shouldn't be a problem for most shooters. Basically same problem m16 has over 30 rounds you end up using your magazine as a tripod. One other advantage of telescoped ammo is you can start making different types of rounds for future use.

originally posted by: SofaKing
a reply to: CaptainBeno

Lots of bragging up a weapon that does not yet exist.

Believe it when I see it.

Considering what the SS190 is capable of out of a P90, I wouldn’t knock their claims of having an ammunition that can tear through any current body armor. The SS190 already almost does just that.

I smell another Bradley.

This isn't about anything more than figuring out a way to spend (taxpayer) money on something. It's all marketing hype. It's a joke (as usual) to fool people who don't know any better.

Rifles invented in 1900 can penetrate any body armor known to man, and even if they don't they can still kill the combatant with sheer blunt force trauma through pure kinetic energy. Especially a squad weapon (of all things). You hit a combatant at 300m with a 7.62x63 or even a 7.62x51 round and the round is going through and/or the combatant is leaving the fight. These cartridges are tried and proven performers and have been for decades. We don't need a new rifle. Hell, even a 7.62x39 will take a combatant (with body armor) out of the fight.

The objective isn't to "kill" your opponent (people forget this). The objective is to "wound" your opponent. Killing a combatant only takes one person out of the fight. Wounding your opponent takes (3) combatants out of the fight.

Oh, and then there's the .50 BMG cartridge! Case closed.

Yeah, we don't need a new rifle!