The Centenary Mystery of World War One.

Hi Everyone,
This is my first thread as a newbie, and is a subject that i am fascinated about, i find that using numerology, national days or even religious days look deliberate. Firstly i will put an unrelated example below about the 2008 Summer Olympics opening ceremony which was held at 08pm on 08/08/08 as 8 is associated with prosperity and confidence in Chinese culture, this will give you the idea of where i am going with intentional dates, link below:-
en.wikipedia.org...

Next month will be the centenary of "The Armistice of World War One", and soon the media will be reporting on this, so my interest is very topical. The Armistice was the first part of two designed to end W.W.1., the other was The Treaty of Versailles, so all armies set down arms at 11am on the 11th day of the 11th month 1918, so could this be deliberate?
en.wikipedia.org...

Many soldiers died before The Armistice, so it would be controversial to think that the date and time was intentional! Eleven is a master number as many here will know by interest in metaphysical subjects:-
www.numerology.com...

The co-incidences keep coming, as Saint Martin of Tours is the Patron Saint of Soldiers, and his feast day is 11th November, obviously this date is very old in the church which is far older than W.W.1., link below:-
aleteia.org...
Link may take time to load.
America observes this as Veterans Day, in UK we call this Remembrance Day, link below:-
en.wikipedia.org...
Moderators please note i have a great deal more to write on W.W.1., however i'm heavily disabled and can only write medium threads without pain, i will be back with more information soon!

a reply to: Astronomer62

Thank you for pushing through the pain astronomer.
We look forward to further insights

a reply to: Astronomer62

This is some great history you've brought up.

If you like WW1 history look up "The Great War" on Youtube - this history professor put together very detailed and well-produced videos about the war, complete with photos and tons of information. You would probably love it, please check it out if you find some time, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

I was not aware of the recent example of the opening ceremony for the Olympics, but it doesn't surprise me.

Love this history - looking forward to following the thread.

a reply to: Astronomer62
According to the historical record, the date was certainly semi-deliberate.
On the eighth of November, delegates from the Allied and German armies met in a railway carriage in the middle of the Forest of Compiegne, to discuss the German request for an armistice. Weygand, for the French, read out the terms proposed by the Allies (i.e. General Foch).
For the Germans, Winterfeldt asked for time to communicate with his government in Berlin. This was allowed, with a time-limit set for their reply.
When the German acceptance of the conditions was radioed back,at eight o'clock on the evening of the 10th, that time-limit became the cease-fire time. The extra delay seems reasonable, because the two H.Q.'s would need to get the orders sent down to the front-line units. The message was sent out to the British armies at 6.50 a.m.
My immediate source is "1918, the last act", by Barrie Pitt, pp242-244. I expect other narratives tell the same story.

originally posted by: Astronomer62

...Next month will be the centenary of "The Armistice of World War One", and soon the media will be reporting on this, so my interest is very topical. The Armistice was the first part of two designed to end W.W.1., the other was The Treaty of Versailles, so all armies set down arms at 11am on the 11th day of the 11th month 1918, so could this be deliberate?...

The date might be coincidental (a little more than a 1-in-365 chance), but the exact time may have been deliberate to give ceremonial weight to the official implementation of the armistice. Or maybe not, and it was just a time.

The Armistice was actually signed about 6 hours earlier, but was stated as officially being enacted at 11:00, which I assume gave time for the countries to get news of the Armistice out to ALL parties at the front lines.

a reply to: Astronomer62

Thanks for the very interesting thread, and I look forward to reading more!

a reply to: DISRAELI
Hi Dashen,
Thank you for your kind comments!
Hi FamCore,
Thank you for your comments, i will look up the link you posted about!
Hi Disraeli,
I will deal with your interesting comments soon, the Germans were trying to surrender a month earlier than 11/11/1918, i will discuss this later with links!
America didn't sign the Treaty of Versailles, they thought the terms were too harsh, which could lead to another war 20 years later, they were right! They signed a separate agreement with Germany, Link doesn't work properly, click on "Search for US-Germany Peace Treaty in other text", which should lead you to the document. Please read small print at top of document....."Came into force with exchange of ratification on 11/11/1921".
en.wikisource.org...

a reply to: Box of Rain
Hi Box of Rain,
The Ottoman Empire mobilized for war and sent out fatwa's on 11/11/1914, although declared war on 14/11/1914, some members may feel that the date of declaring war could reasonable be date of the fatwa's

www.historytoday.com...

It is interesting that some started war and others ended war on the same date, so stretches the odds of chance!

a reply to: Astronomer62
Yes, they were making preliminary inquiries beforehand, but not before the 8th did they send out a delegation to discuss the specific terms.
The main factor in the delay was the German government's reluctance to accept the immediacy of the need to stop fighting.
You should read up on the in-fighting within the German govenment- the dismissal of Ludendorff (October 26th), the pressure on the Kaiser to abdicate. Nothing could happen until the German command was ready to say "We'd better give in and give them what they want".

a reply to: DISRAELI
Hi Disraeli,
Yes I agree with you, however 11/11/1918 may have been a joint agreement between Germany and the allies to have the Armistice on date of the Feast Day of Saint Martin of Tours, the Patron Saint of SOLDIERS!
In order to understand exactly what went wrong back in the summer of 1914, we need to look no furtherthan examine the key alliances that happened between 1879 and 1907, ending with "The Triple Entente".
In fact these treaties were alliances that the major nations signed in fear of each other declaring war, yet made all Europe vulnerable to a terrorist attack, bringing the major nations into an involuntary "Dance of Death", and a war that most did not want!
Saint Vitus Day 1389 and "The Battle of Kosovo Poyle marks the beginning of the Serbian nation, the spirit of togetherness that saw the Serbian peoples unite against the Turkish invader.
Obviously the date changes if valued by the Julian Calendar or the present Gregorian day method, however Saint Vitus Day or Vidovdan is 28th June, and there are grounds to speculate that 28th June 1914 may have been chosen as the trigger date of W.W.1. We have a juicy secret society involved in this called "The Black Hand!".
More about Vidovdan and serbian beliefs on this national day are below:-
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Astronomer62
Such a joint agreement would have to work through the following accidental circumstances;
The time was originally set (by Foch, I presume) as a reply deadline.
As it happened, the reply arrived in time for the deadline to be converted into a ceasefire time, but he could not have known in advance that this would be the case. For all he knew, the reply might have arrived ten minutes before the deadline, in which case the ceasefire itself could only take place much later. If he was seriously intent on having the ceasefire on the eleventh, he should have set an earlier reply deadline, just to be on the safe side.
Then, as I mentioned before, there is the time it took for the internal politics of the German government to get resolved. These things are unpredictable.

a reply to: DISRAELI
Hi Disraeli,
I agree with you that things were tight but not impossible, however my thesis involves a lot of uses regarding dates, so i had better set the scene for Vidovdan 1914.
Two bullets fired on a Sarajevo street on a sunny June morning in 1914 set in motion a series of events that shaped the world we live in today, W.W.1., W.W.2., the Cold War, and our difficulties in the Middle East all trace their originto the gunshots that interrupted that summer day, 28th June 1914, Saint Vitus Day.
The victims, Arch-duke Ferdinand, on his wedding anniversary, heir to the throne of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and his wife Sophie were shot by 19 year old Gavrilo Princip who burned with the fire of Slavic nationalism, he envisioned the death of the Arch-duke as the key that would unlock the shackles binding his people to the Austro_Hungarian Empire. He was well picked as most of the conspirators were dying from TB, therefore didn't mind being martyers, very clever Mr Dimitrijevic and the probably metaphysical Black Hand Society.

Serbia figured prominently in the plot, providing the guns, ammunition and training that made the assassination possible, they may also have seen a symbolic connectionto the Battle of Kosovo Poyle, so in theory used that date for this auspicious event in history.
Gavrilo Princip become an unwitting "Pied Piper", as this assassination precipitated the Austro-Hungarian declaration of war against Serbia and started the involuntary dance of death or Saint Vitus Dance of W.W.1.

a reply to: DISRAELI
Hi Disraeli,
The Trigger for war was the assassination of Arch-duke Ferdinand on Saint Vitus Day, 28th June 1914, link below:-
en.wikipedia.org...

Most people regard 28th June 1919 as the auspicious date of surrender involving the second part for the end of war being the Treaty of Versailles, which just happens to be Saint Vitus Day, 28th June 1919.

What a crazy world we live in!
www.awm.gov.au...
Tomorrow i will report on the "Black Hand", the motif was an arm carrying a flag with the skull and cross bones on it, a poison bottle, a dagger dripping blood and a fizzing bomb, true events can be stranger than fiction!

I think 11th November was a target date. 1100 was of course the time in France, which would have been different in other time zones. Anyway, negotiations had started in October and a cease fire of sorts had been implemented. Germany had realised that they were defeated and their military was falling to pieces. The Armistice was merely signing-off the agreed position following the negotiations. The date was opportune, it could have been the 12th had their been a hitch.

a reply to: Astronomer62

You guys listen to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History? He's got a 6 episode long series clocking in at about 18 hours of WWI. He's pretty good, if you haven't heard him, you should give him a shot.

a reply to: Astronomer62

yes and no

in reality - only the " 11th hour " was " planned "

the 11th day of the 11th month - just " fell into place "

due to the way the war " wound down " - and armistice negotiations became a reality - with a " agreeable settlement " in sight

" rushing " the ceasefire dealine to fall on the 10th was seen as reckless - and delaying it to the 12th - insane

so - the 11th of november it was to be

11:00 - yup that was the machinations of someone with an eye on the soundbyte it would create

but so what ????

sometimes its too easy to read too much into things

a reply to: ignorant_ape
Hi Ignorant_ape,
The Allies sent a humerous reply to Ottoman Empire for sending out fatwa's for war on 11/11/1914, it must have been a nightmare, Armistice of Mudros, as it came into force at noon on 31st October 1918, happy Halloween!

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Hi Ignorant_ape,

A lot of dates are chosen regarding the position of Sirius or the Center Star of the Belt of Orion, called Alnilam.
Many but not all secret societies align to the start of the day, this can be midnight, sunrise being ancient Egyptian or Roman day start, or sunset previous to date, being ancient Greek day start.
They align to location regarding the four directions, Due East or Due West relates to the horizon, Due South in Northern Hemisphere relates to Zenith at location, and Due North relates to the Nadir in Northern Hemisphere.
It is these positions that an alignment to these two stars are highly prized, i will finish this thread section soon!

a reply to: ignorant_ape
I didn't choose my avatar by chance as i am an archaeo-astronomer, Sirius rising with the Sun is believed to be very powerful in esoteric groups, which you can see on last post, the date was chosen at location of Sevres, France, for reason of beliefs that it would hold the partitioned Ottoman Empire to the rules of surrender laid down in the Treaty of Sevres on 10th August 1920, link below that will correspond to astronomy graph:-
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: paraphi

It is time to investigate Dragutin Dimitrijevic the "Boss" of the Black Hand Society that Murdered Arch-duke Ferdinand on 28th June 1914, and why he had the code name of "Apis" or the "Bee".
I will leave a link to this secret society and later do a lot of explaining:-
net.lib.byu.edu...