Teacher says she was fired for giving zeroes to students who didn't turn in their work

a reply to: IAMNOTYOU

To be fair, what good are a grade really??

A measure of how much one learned .
You fail , you get to repeat .
Done
Next

Well, speaking about the OP, sounds like the school rules are set.
She (or I) may not agree with them, however, that is the rule as it stands.
However, she should take up the banner to remove this rule.

Reality:

People fail. Pretending that failure doesn't exist would be in error.
Rewarding someone for not doing any work or doing sub par work is erroneous.
The grading system is not an emotion based system.
It is a process of seeing how much you know or retain and apply from the teaching system. The grading system is how good or bad you are at doing that.

When we worry about making little Mary or little Jimmy or little Non-Binary person sad by giving them a ZERO, this is the kind of grading system we get. Something that doesn't remotely resemble the real working world.

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: IAMNOTYOU

To be fair, what good are a grade really??

A measure of how much one learned .
You fail , you get to repeat .
Done
Next

So you didnt care to read what i wrote? why do you even care to respond to something you didnt read?
I know youre properly not gonna read this either, but what i was saying, was that a grade is NOT a good measure of how much you learned. If you gave me youre grades i couldnt use them for anything, how do i know what you know, based on you showing me a grade?
It doesnt say ANYTHING about what you know or learned, only that you ONE DAY in youre life, was able to get the grade you got...
Knowledge is not the goal here, only the grates are, you need those to get the job you want, NOT the knowledge...

Just imagine a time when these same students start start engineering bridges and skyscrapers!

Just imagine a time when these same students start performing neurosurgery or open heart surgery.

Just imagine a time when these same students are the ones defending YOU in a court of law after being accused of a crime you didn't commit.

Just imagine...

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Just imagine a time when these same students start start engineering bridges and skyscrapers!

Just imagine a time when these same students start performing neurosurgery or open heart surgery.

Just imagine a time when these same students are the ones defending YOU in a court of law after being accused of a crime you didn't commit.

Just imagine...

I think I have a pretty fair idea on how it will go down
youtu.be...

Idiocracy, crazy how it’s possible...

Camain

a reply to: starwarsisreal

Sounds about right. My stepson is in 5th grade and they have a behavior and work rating system for each day. Apparently anything below a 90% means they were maniacs, acted out, bothered others, and did not do their work.

Its getting bad for these kids especially if they have behavior problems in class. Seems like they are just doing worksheets and really not learning the subjects well. Also have you tried that common-core type math? I looks at it the other day they are doing division using groups and subtraction...WTH. It seems like a dumbing down of kids for the last 5 years. What's the hidden agenda behind it.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

This is absolutely insane. Does it fall along the lines of "everyone gets a trophy? Or, is it really to skew the numbers to make up for crappy, uninteresting, uninspiring school district?

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Just imagine a time when these same students start start engineering bridges and skyscrapers!

Just imagine a time when these same students start performing neurosurgery or open heart surgery.

Just imagine a time when these same students are the ones defending YOU in a court of law after being accused of a crime you didn't commit.

Just imagine...

Maybe the point is that when they become adults there will be no need for them to do any of that. Maybe that will be the job of AI and those that are heavily motivated to self learn or get education out of the mind numbing school system. It will serve well to have dull, uneducated masses unable to use reasoning skills, content to get a small stipend from the government...just guessing here...doesn't paint a very pretty picture does it?

a reply to: RickyD

Indeed, one major part of education is the intangible benefit of the schedule/time limit/deadline. These are things that adults constantly deal with in the work force. Many school systems have allowed this kind of situation to become rampant. This was their response to No Child Left Behind. The systems are playing the stat game.

originally posted by: IAMNOTYOU

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: IAMNOTYOU

To be fair, what good are a grade really??

A measure of how much one learned .
You fail , you get to repeat .
Done
Next

So you didnt care to read what i wrote? why do you even care to respond to something you didnt read?
I know youre properly not gonna read this either, but what i was saying, was that a grade is NOT a good measure of how much you learned. If you gave me youre grades i couldnt use them for anything, how do i know what you know, based on you showing me a grade?
It doesnt say ANYTHING about what you know or learned, only that you ONE DAY in youre life, was able to get the grade you got...
Knowledge is not the goal here, only the grates are, you need those to get the job you want, NOT the knowledge...

I agree, a grade is not indicative of what you know. I have observed some of the 'brightest" with the best academic credentials aren't worth crap in the workplace. They may not have time management or prioritizing skills, they may need to be praised constantly and do not take instruction well. I have worked with many. I have seen someone with an associates degree out perform someone with a Masters degree, more than once.

The problem with the OP situation is that kids weren't even trying to do the work and they are supposed to be given at least a 50%...In the real world if you choose not to go to a job, you are not going to be given a paycheck of 50%..this is not a benefit to anyone to give credit to someone that is not even trying.

originally posted by: wdkirk
Well, speaking about the OP, sounds like the school rules are set.
She (or I) may not agree with them, however, that is the rule as it stands.
However, she should take up the banner to remove this rule.

Reality:

People fail. Pretending that failure doesn't exist would be in error.
Rewarding someone for not doing any work or doing sub par work is erroneous.
The grading system is not an emotion based system.
It is a process of seeing how much you know or retain and apply from the teaching system. The grading system is how good or bad you are at doing that.

When we worry about making little Mary or little Jimmy or little Non-Binary person sad by giving them a ZERO, this is the kind of grading system we get. Something that doesn't remotely resemble the real working world.

This is the most balanced post I have seen on this thread. I look forward to reading more of your posts.

Here's an anecdote I experienced while coaching baseball for the school team....
I was a typical middle school coach. I taught fundamentals and teamwork. Since I taught many of the young men in the classroom, they knew my position on academics; if you were not performing in the classroom, you will not be performing on the field.

This particular season was almost over, I had an eight grade student get in a fight during school hours and he was suspended. The school rule was that a student wouldn't be allowed to practice/play while suspended. This young man's parents made him quit the baseball team for fighting in school. I was surprised, but I supported the parents decision completely.

When it is time for the awards day, this young man and his parents were upset that he wasn't receiving his baseball award for being on the team. They argued with our principal until she folded and told me k would be presenting him with a trophy for participating, even though he quit the team. This was c100% against the team work and responsibility that k was teaching my players. Needless to say, I wasn't happy. Rather than making a huge fuss, I spent the rest of the baseball teams budget to buy EVERYONE that tried out baseball team trophies. This was a huge surprise to all of the students that tried out and it was an eye opener for the administration. I was never reprimanded and I never coached a sport at that school again (I was an assistant football coach, head baseball coach and head soccer coach). If I couldn't teach the character building aspects of the sport, then it wasn't worth my time to coach just for wins

originally posted by: IAMNOTYOU

originally posted by: Gothmog
Liberal parents wanting a "participation" grade .
Soon , if not already , they will push for doing away with grades just like in school sports. In which everyone gets a trophy...

Where does the insanity stop ?

To be fair, what good are a grade really?? You either know how to do stuff, or you dont!
All a grade tells me, is that the person, one day in their life, was able to get a good, average or bad grade, and that might have been achieved by cheating or having rich parents who can send you to a school where EVERYBODY gets a high grade.
I need someone who is able to multiply, so someone might get a good grade, because they are good at everything else, but knows crap about multiplying, so what good are the grade??

I agree on no free trophys, but rate people after what they can or cant do, a effing grade doesnt do nothing!!

But school is a joke anyways, you dont learn to think, only to read a book and accept the answers in it, without ever questioning if the information is right or wrong! (Just like religion) A high grade, only means that the person is willing to accept the "truths" you tell without asking to many questions...

This entire post sounds like the person writing it is one who got average to poor grades in school.

You get out of school what you put into it. No effort? You won't learn anything.

I got straight A's my ENTIRE school career. Grade school, junior high, high school, my undergraduate degree, and my master's degree. I didn't get those A's because I didn't turn in homework or because I was allowed to retake tests. I got those A's because I studied and applied myself and worked my ass off.

The folks who say that good grades only show that you can regurgitate what you read in a book are unfailingly the ones who didn't get good grades.

Full disclosure: I did get one B....in a PE course (Jogging) in college. If you missed the class more than once, your letter grade dropped. I missed two classes while I was on a required trip with one of my major classes, and I turned in the excused absence form AFTER the trip instead of before, so the teacher gave me a B.

ETA: I'm not even very smart! My point of this post is that I worked hard and applied myself. Just ask my twin brother, who got tired of explaining and helping me with our math homework every night. "We went over this LAST night! Why do I have to keep explaining this to you?!" 😂😂😂. Put forth the effort and you'll learn the material.

a reply to: IAMNOTYOU

it isnt true. grade is a good way to measure how much you learned or know. but to get good grades you first need to understand in which frame the grading wiĺl be implimented. I was a scholarship student at high school and university. I know how to get them and what is expected to get them. it measures how much you know or learned from teacher's point of view.

This whole story sums up so many things wrong with the world today..

1. Kids can't get a 0 for doing nothing because they are delicate snowflakes and everyone is a winner or equal.

2. The teacher didn't get fired for giving a 0 but rather for breaking a known operating rule of the school. Actions aren't free from consequences and if she knew that rule was there I'm not sure what she expected to happen.

Nope it's 2018 though someone else is always to blame and everyone is equal or a winner.

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Failing is failing.

But I would really like to know if the kids they send out are any dumber than other schools.

.

The answer is a definite yes. And what's worse is that they leave with NO sense of personal responsibility. I don't know how they can look themselves in the mirror, but I guess after years of being allowed to get away with doing no work and putting forth no effort, it must start to feel just fine.

I teach one-on-one lessons (saxophone, flute) to students. So I get to experience these kids up close. I started noticing a BIG change in students maybe six or seven years ago, mainly with none of them able to focus their damn attention for more than 5 seconds at a time. No I am not exaggerating. Then I started noticing how many of them get really uncomfortable when asked to learn something they haven't done yet. In fact, a lot of them will just refuse.

That's about the time this "no-failing and retake any test you fail" policy started up here.

Taught Trombone years ago and even then I noticed how even after giving them their assignment for the next week, and I purposely dumbed it down for them, they would come back and have no clue wtf they were doing. They didn't practice. I quit! You know what I got from the school? Well it's easy money... Screw that, I want students who want to learn!

You know I adore you man, but if you were teaching trombone and considered it "easy money," you were NOT doing it right. At all. Teaching a musical instrument and how to read and interpret music is hard-ass work if you are really teaching it. Especially when you add in the students who, like you pointed out, can't even be bothered to take a look at a dumbed-down assignment they've been given a whole week to do.

Maybe what you meant was that the parents were giving you money that their kids were just throwing away by not applying themselves? Because it's not easy money if you really try to get even the dead-eyed kids to interact.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

Schools are graded on students performance. How to make sure you don't get fired and still get govt money? Implement policies that prevent students from failing. Regardless of whether the students learn anything or not. Is there anyone out there who actually thinks school administration or teachers unions give a rats rear about the students themselves?

Im assuming the minimum 50% is some bleeding heart liberal trying to make his supporters feel better for showing up to school. Good on the teacher.

This is the dumbest thing I've seen this year. You don't turn in work you get a 0.

In real life you don't do work you get fired, you don't get the promotion, you don't get the raise, you don't get better assignments.

Kids need to learn that life is tough. Hard work always pays off. Doing no work pays off as well, just in really negative ways.

I want to see what happens when these kids grow up and refuse to do whatever task has been assigned at their place of employment because their school told them it was okay.

Gonna be a fair few permanent welfare claimants who are unemployable from this place.

Personally when I went to school I would still consider 50% a failure. The personal standards I set for myself were that anything less than 90% was a failure.