Serena Williams Cheating?

a reply to: Sookiechacha

One is playing baseball and the other is playing tennis. Both are poor sports.

a reply to: ketsuko


The sport doesn't matter. It's about the characterization. A man is depicted as having an argument. A women is depicted as having a meltdown. It's that simple. Sexism is that pervasive.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: howtonhawky

seems it should be said more!

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: narrator
a reply to: howtonhawky

Ok, let's say we're able to definitively conclude that she didn't look at the coach. What about the rest of the offenses?

The rest would be beside the point if we could conclude she did not receive any help.

I have never liked her and i care not for feminism or women's rights movements but after seeing all the facts here i am a fan her now.

Fact is the ref was wrong for calling out the coach for trying to cheat when he should have watched serena to see if she was receiving help. That is what the rules state that she is not allowed to receive help.

The rest of the offences are also unprecedented since many male players are coming out and many videos are surfacing that show in the past there were no points or fines for temper tantrums.


However i suffer from authoritarian phobia.

I'm incredibly glad that men are standing by her. I saw that McEnroe agrees with her, and that's awesome. However, she still broke rules. Hence my original point:

She shattered her racket because she was pissed because of a botched play, and she repeatedly yelled at the ref, calling him names. Those are both against the rules.
Yes, I fully believe that some male players would've gotten away with it, and she didn't. That sucks, and shouldn't happen at all. However, instead of giving her a pass because men sometimes get one, I lean the other direction: I believe that means the males of the sport need to be officiated just as strictly as the females. Saying "she shouldn't be penalized for what she did because men aren't" takes away from the sport as a whole. She broke rules, she should be penalized. Men should get the exact same treatment, and stop getting a free pass.
Toughen up the officiating for the men, don't relax the officiating of the women.

ETA: I'm cut from the same cloth in terms of hating authority. However, I don't consider the rules of a game to be "authority". It's a game. The rules are there to show people how to play, hundreds of thousands of kids are looking up to these players (of all sports). If a sport didn't have rules, no one would watch because players could do whatever they wanted. Don't ignore the rules just because you're one of the best players ever. No one should get a pass, true equality. In fact, the greatest players of all time should hold themselves more strictly to the rules of the game, and should have some class.

originally posted by: ABNARTY
a reply to: howtonhawky

I said it on the other thread, I'll say it here.

An argument is male tennis players get away with being jack a**es so it must be OK for the women to do it. I am not sure the in and outs of the professional tennis organization which runs the US Open but they must be pathetic.

This is your brand. Your bread and butter. And you allow professional adults (male or female) to rant around, break stuff, and carry on? It's freekin' tennis for gosh sakes. Right up there with golf and horses trotting around in a circle.

The coach admitted he was cheating. He signaled move closer to the net. The video clearly shows her moving closer to the net. The announcer even mentions it. Whether this cost the match or not is hypothetical and irrelevant. She accuses the judge of acting unprofessional at the same time she is acting unprofessional. Sounds like trying to cover your tracks.

She knew she was getting beat. Instead of choosing some grace and maturity or playing harder, well....

What is the signal to move closer and i am pretty sure moving closer to the net is something that is done every few seconds in that sport.

originally posted by: ABNARTY
a reply to: howtonhawky

I said it on the other thread, I'll say it here.

An argument is male tennis players get away with being jack a**es so it must be OK for the women to do it. I am not sure the in and outs of the professional tennis organization which runs the US Open but they must be pathetic.

This is your brand. Your bread and butter. And you allow professional adults (male or female) to rant around, break stuff, and carry on? It's freekin' tennis for gosh sakes. Right up there with golf and horses trotting around in a circle.

The coach admitted he was cheating. He signaled move closer to the net. The video clearly shows her moving closer to the net. The announcer even mentions it. Whether this cost the match or not is hypothetical and irrelevant. She accuses the judge of acting unprofessional at the same time she is acting unprofessional. Sounds like trying to cover your tracks.

She knew she was getting beat. Instead of choosing some grace and maturity or playing harder, well....

I couldn't say it better, and I agree completely. The lack of class in today's world of sports is a travesty. You were being beaten fair and square. Own it, rather than act like a child. (This isn't specific to Serena either, tons of athletes do the same thing. Steph Curry comes to mind).

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: ketsuko


The sport doesn't matter. It's about the characterization. A man is depicted as having an argument. A women is depicted as having a meltdown. It's that simple. Sexism is that pervasive.

Here's a whole video specifically labeled baseball Meltdowns. It's almost a year old, and they look remarkably similar to Serena, don't they? Hmmm ...

a reply to: howtonhawky

Not true. The strategic advantage of moving in during rallys is long gone. No one does this anymore, not even during the supreme advantage of serve, because the racquets are too accurate and powerful. It is just too easy to fire a passing shot except when the player is caught in an awkward position during the shot, and even then it is risky. You would have to be able to read likelehood of the poor return and move very quickly to the best spot. Percentage tennis is against moving forward, always. No man’s land is now everywhere except for the baseline region.

You only move in on a short ball, and you better be able to put it away.

# 995

a reply to: TheWhiteKnight

Well i am glad for your post here cause you seem to know the sport.

I was speaking in general terms such as the last time i watched a match i noticed they moved around alot.

Yes...a player may forget about such a simple stragtegy, especially since ratcheting closer on a shot by shot basis is no longer advantageous, or used, except when an opponent is showing weakness, fatique, or erratic shotmaking. All things being equal baseline position seems to be de rigeur.

It was not possible for me to watch the matches, so I am speaking in general terms. I suppose the coach may have been signaling Serena to move in a bit to take away some time from her opponent, but this would be a small adjustment from baseline position, not a call to start moving toward net. One doesn’t do this unless necessary, ie., a short ball, drop shot etc....
Just think ping pong when you think tennis. When you have to reach over the table for a short shot...that is about how often players actually move in past the service box. It really is a changed game. If you can get stick on the ball, you can kill it, and with very repeatable accuracy.

# 996

a reply to: howtonhawky

a reply to: howtonhawky

What is the signal to move closer...

Maybe that's why Serena was in the game and you weren't. However, you can ask her coach. In case you missed it...

www.abc.net.au...
www.thesouthafrican.com...
www.ubitennis.net...
www.express.co.uk...

You can play it off as unaware all you want. He says he did it. There is video of him doing it. The announcer during the match said it. The rules by which they enter the contest are clear. What else ya' got?

a reply to: ABNARTY



I am not playing anything off.

it was a question i was wondering and the points you address have already been answered.

Serena says she did not receive any instructions and the rules say players can not receive instructions. the rules do not say the coach can not give instructions.

facts

a reply to: howtonhawky
Disclaimer: I don't give a flying flip about who won or lost or the rules or the players feelings.

the rules do not say the coach can not give instructions...

False. I am not a tennis expert but I can read. See for yourself. There is controversy over the rule but it says what it says.
www.usta.com...
www.itftennis.com...

Here is discussion supporting what the rules state and what the judge did:
www.usatoday.com...

Here is discussion on that same judge and his record of handing out penalties regardless if male of female:
www.theaustralian.com.au...

IMO professional athletes should act like anyone else who puts the word "professional" in front of their job title. It's a free country and they don't have to but they shouldn't expect to be taken seriously when they plead a case such as this. To claim Serena's actions were professional is myopic. To explain "what really happened didn't happen" in order to synchronize with some narrative is disingenuous.

Think about it. If you did something like that in front of an audience that size, how would you feel? I would want to crawl in a hole after I cooled off. I would be on the mic the next day trying to repair any shred of dignity I might have left. I would bend over backwards to make the distinction on re-looking some rules and my unacceptable behavior.

Call me old fashion.

a reply to: ABNARTY

I don't give a flying flip about who won or lost or the rules or the players feelings.

alrighty then

the rest of your post kinda loses all meaning

Maybe that's why Serena was in the game and you weren't

I really do not understand why you came here just to be contrary with me.

a reply to: howtonhawky

I apologize if that is how I came across.

I will admit the Serena/US Open incident bothers me next to nothing compared to the Max Kellermans of the interwebz on the Serena/US Open incident.

You will hear no more from me on this subject. S&F for the OP.

a reply to: ABNARTY

No worries you made some great points and i am glad you did.

a reply to: howtonhawky



There's plenty of videos of male tennis players getting angry on the court.

I don't know if they get penalized or not. But you can see it happens.

a reply to: grey580

Such attracted many fans in the past.