Anti-Christ In Office

originally posted by: 14377
I've got a rational question. Did you hate trump before you came to this conclusion ?

I dont hate any president. How simple minded has ATS become? Because I question corruption I'm all of a sudden anti-trump? How does this work? I was also anti-hillary....I've got a problem with corruption and its plagued the government for decades. Just skimming these comments and looking at all the assumptions being made is shocking...I not once said I was against anything. I'm simply drawing parrallels as to why so many are dragging religion into this presidency and why? Given the amount of individuals using God and religion as a means to justify laws is increasingly high in this administration, I'm surprised no one has drawn the same parrallels I have. What other president would be better seen as the antichrist then the one all the blind sheeple seem to follow and claim God put in office.

originally posted by: GeauxHomeYoureDrunk
a reply to: Jenisiz

Well for starters if you have ever studied Biblical prophesy concerning the antichrist you would know that no world leader has yet fit the bill. If and when the antichrist comes into power he will be beloved by all, lauded as the "bringer of world peace", and poverty, hunger, etc. will be temporarily put out of business. Does that sound like what you've heard in the press about Trump? No, just complaints and accusations galore- whether substantiated or not!

I own many copies of the bible from varying faithes... and if you recall not everyone loves him. Hence the war and multiple metaphors of war used. Given Trumps current track record and the constant drivel and use of the bible to be utilized in the creation/defense of law...I've never seen another more applicable person at the level of power he's obtained. Save for Obama, and there were several threads claiming Obama was the antichrist as well as articles. But not one for Trump?

originally posted by: Jenisiz

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Jenisiz

I've always found "spiritual but not religious" to be code for "I'm a dumbass"

Please show us examples of where this administration is pushing religious policies.

if you need examples google Trump and God...should be easy enough to find at least a dozen different examples of his cabinet referring to it. First thing I hit was this

www.politico.com...

Now doing the same for Obama presents this

www.politico.com...

Notice a difference? Religion as per forefathers is supposed to be separated from government. Instead of bashing, present something worth discussing.

Are you serious? You`ve never read any of their speeches in Congress,letters to each others,Presidential proclamations or know what Manifest Destiny was have you? Clinton,Bush and Obama were not our forefathers,That was Washington,Adams,and Madison among others.And you might want to read some of Lincolns believes and reasons he was against slavery.

originally posted by: Jenisiz
I own many copies of the bible from varying faithes... and if you recall not everyone loves him. Hence the war and multiple metaphors of war used. Given Trumps current track record and the constant drivel and use of the bible to be utilized in the creation/defense of law...I've never seen another more applicable person at the level of power he's obtained. Save for Obama, and there were several threads claiming Obama was the antichrist as well as articles. But not one for Trump?

If that is true then you must remember this part:

All of this is paving the way for the Antichrist himself to appear and get rid of any pretence of religion. He will do away with God altogether. He will perform signs and wonders to prove to the world once and for all that mankind is self-sufficient. (Revelation 13:13-14)

Have you seen or heard any indication of Trump trying to do away with God or religion in general? Because it seems like you have been saying the exact opposite.

ACcording to tmz show last nite cavanah will ban abortion and plan b and trump is the satan of this world. He has the right color for the job.imo

The whole tanning thing is a bit odd but maybe he is just an orange cheetah at heart.

originally posted by: ridgerunner

originally posted by: Jenisiz

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Jenisiz

I've always found "spiritual but not religious" to be code for "I'm a dumbass"

Please show us examples of where this administration is pushing religious policies.

if you need examples google Trump and God...should be easy enough to find at least a dozen different examples of his cabinet referring to it. First thing I hit was this

www.politico.com...

Now doing the same for Obama presents this

www.politico.com...

Notice a difference? Religion as per forefathers is supposed to be separated from government. Instead of bashing, present something worth discussing.

Are you serious? You`ve never read any of their speeches in Congress,letters to each others,Presidential proclamations or know what Manifest Destiny was have you? Clinton,Bush and Obama were not our forefathers,That was Washington,Adams,and Madison among others.And you might want to read some of Lincolns believes and reasons he was against slavery.

Very serious, you obviously dont know history. First ammendment prohibits regulation or endorsement of any religion bud...look it up.

a reply to: Jenisiz

I will attempt to respond to you post. Obama was widely perceived to be anti-christian. Some believed he was actually a Moslem. The church he attended for decades in Chicago was thought by many to have unchristian views. He gave a speech in Georgetown where he insisted all crosses be removed before he would speak even though it was in a christian school. He presided over two terms during which there was a war on Christianity that resulted in the removal of all public christian imagery during the Christmas season and groups like Freedom from Religion forced the removal of plaques crediting the donation of park benches, etc. by any church or religious organizations. Terms like Merry Christmas were censored from the media and replaced with happy holidays. All the while Christianity was being suppressed, Jewish and Islamic symbols remained unaffected. His middle east policy of supporting ISIS and Moslem extremism led to the genocide of large numbers of Christian populations not just in Iraq and Syria but also places like Egypt.

That's just off the top of my head. There's probably more.

When Trump ran for office, he said he would end this war on Christianity and make it all right to say Merry Christmas again. He hasn't committed the country to any religious faith. Moving the embassy in Israel did not make The US a Jewish country and certainly not a Christian one. We are probably still less religious today than before Obama but at least there is not such an overtly hostile climate as before.

originally posted by: GeauxHomeYoureDrunk

originally posted by: Jenisiz
I own many copies of the bible from varying faithes... and if you recall not everyone loves him. Hence the war and multiple metaphors of war used. Given Trumps current track record and the constant drivel and use of the bible to be utilized in the creation/defense of law...I've never seen another more applicable person at the level of power he's obtained. Save for Obama, and there were several threads claiming Obama was the antichrist as well as articles. But not one for Trump?

If that is true then you must remember this part:

All of this is paving the way for the Antichrist himself to appear and get rid of any pretence of religion. He will do away with God altogether. He will perform signs and wonders to prove to the world once and for all that mankind is self-sufficient. (Revelation 13:13-14)

Have you seen or heard any indication of Trump trying to do away with God or religion in general? Because it seems like you have been saying the exact opposite.

Yes, that's the beauty of it all. Trump is denying religions...and will continue to make moves. There is more than just one antichrist remember...

Little children, it is the last hour: and as you have heard that Antichrist cometh, even now there are become many Antichrists: whereby we know that it is the last hour.

— 1 John 2:18 Douay-Rheims

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: Jenisiz

I will attempt to respond to you post. Obama was widely perceived to be anti-christian. Some believed he was actually a Moslem. The church he attended for decades in Chicago was thought by many to have unchristian views. He gave a speech in Georgetown where he insisted all crosses be removed before he would speak even though it was in a christian school. He presided over two terms during which there was a war on Christianity that resulted in the removal of all public christian imagery during the Christmas season and groups like Freedom from Religion forced the removal of plaques crediting the donation of park benches, etc. by any church or religious organizations. Terms like Merry Christmas were censored from the media and replaced with happy holidays. All the while Christianity was being suppressed, Jewish and Islamic symbols remained unaffected. His middle east policy of supporting ISIS and Moslem extremism led to the genocide of large numbers of Christian populations not just in Iraq and Syria but also places like Egypt.

That's just off the top of my head. There's probably more.

When Trump ran for office, he said he would end this war on Christianity and make it all right to say Merry Christmas again. He hasn't committed the country to any religious faith. Moving the embassy in Israel did not make The US a Jewish country and certainly not a Christian one. We are probably still less religious today than before Obama but at least there is not such an overtly hostile climate as before.

Let me make something clear, I wasn't about Obama and am not in this thread either. I used that as an example to prove the point I'm making. It is simply a quandary into all the parrallels to the "antichrists" nature and how religion is being utilized more than any other time in recent history to justify acts which should solely not be happening per First Ammendment. Period. I am asking ATS why is this happening now? As you state in your last paragraph, end the War on Christianity...there never was a war on Christianity to begin with. We started crusades millennia ago and have continued to persecute based off of religious beliefs that should have no merit on law. Religion is a weapon to persecute and has no place in politics. Period. It was used by Trump to win a seat at the big table, and instead of allowing this, we should be against it.

a reply to: JenisizSo you haven`t read anything much,Manifest Destiny was the belief that God had destined the United States to reach from coast to coast.And very obviously you haven't read the Declaration of Independence,try reading the first 2 paragraphs .They were opposed to forcing a religion like the Catholic or Church of England,not against belief in God,freedom of choice and speech were important and they spoke freely of God in Congress and personal life

originally posted by: ridgerunner
a reply to: JenisizSo you haven`t read anything much,Manifest Destiny was the belief that God had destined the United States to reach from coast to coast.And very obviously you haven't read the Declaration of Independence,try reading the first 2 paragraphs .They were opposed to forcing a religion like the Catholic or Church of England,not against belief in God,freedom of choice and speech were important and they spoke freely of God in Congress and personal life

So, since I dont read much, care to point out where Manifest Destiny is located in the Constitution? Quit trying to make a moot point that Religion is in the framework of or Constitution. It is EXACTLY the opposite of what you're implying.

a reply to: Jenisiz

I did not make an accusation. I asked a question, your first sentence was the answer to my question .

a reply to: Jenisiz
I dislike both sides of the aisle equally, but I dislike the lean toward a quasi-theocracy even more. I'm not so worried about Trump specifically, he's about as Christian as I am, but Pence and Sessions are another story altogether. That said, the "anti-christ" is more of a blow-hard, narcissistic, anti-religionist, warmonger that leads the way to persecution of the "faithful". So Trump doesn't quite qualify, since he has the religious right in his pocket.

What you're seeing is a bit of dominionism coming from the executive branch. I wouldn't be too concerned though, the pendulum will swing back the other way, and you'll have a whole new set of evils to contend with.

originally posted by: Jenisiz

originally posted by: ridgerunner

originally posted by: Jenisiz

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Jenisiz

I've always found "spiritual but not religious" to be code for "I'm a dumbass"

Please show us examples of where this administration is pushing religious policies.

if you need examples google Trump and God...should be easy enough to find at least a dozen different examples of his cabinet referring to it. First thing I hit was this

www.politico.com...

Now doing the same for Obama presents this

www.politico.com...

Notice a difference? Religion as per forefathers is supposed to be separated from government. Instead of bashing, present something worth discussing.

Are you serious? You`ve never read any of their speeches in Congress,letters to each others,Presidential proclamations or know what Manifest Destiny was have you? Clinton,Bush and Obama were not our forefathers,That was Washington,Adams,and Madison among others.And you might want to read some of Lincolns believes and reasons he was against slavery.

Very serious, you obviously dont know history. First ammendment prohibits regulation or endorsement of any religion bud...look it up.

I don't know what you learned in college but the history of America is that of a deeply religious Christian people. Yes, "First ammendment prohibits regulation or endorsement of any religion." That doesn't mean the people can not be religious. It means the US can't declare itself a Christian country and suppress or discriminate against other faiths. They can't deduct tithes from your paycheck and give them directly to the church like they did in Europe. It means we are not to subjugate ourselves to the political control of a pope or other religious leader like they did in Europe and the Middle East.

Historically, churches were very active politically. That wasn't prohibited until the '60s with the Johnson Amendment. Many of the most famous speeches in history were delivered from a church pulpit. Official documents and proclamations made frequent reference to God and the entire legal system in the US is based upon biblical principles.

originally posted by: Jenisiz

originally posted by: ridgerunner
a reply to: JenisizSo you haven`t read anything much,Manifest Destiny was the belief that God had destined the United States to reach from coast to coast.And very obviously you haven't read the Declaration of Independence,try reading the first 2 paragraphs .They were opposed to forcing a religion like the Catholic or Church of England,not against belief in God,freedom of choice and speech were important and they spoke freely of God in Congress and personal life

So, since I dont read much, care to point out where Manifest Destiny is located in the Constitution? Quit trying to make a moot point that Religion is in the framework of or Constitution. It is EXACTLY the opposite of what you're implying.

You are missing the point,I was pointing out that religious men have been part of our government from the very start of this country.Praying and speaking of their belief in God in the Capitol has never established a religion and Pence,Sessions,etc pose no danger of doing that.As for the Antichrist being Trump or any American politician,doubtful.If they are loved all over the world and manage to secure a world peace It will shock me,Manifest Destiny was a widespread belief that influenced politicians of the day and used as a excuse for doing whatever they needed

originally posted by: Jenisiz

Yes, that's the beauty of it all. Trump is denying religions...and will continue to make moves. There is more than just one antichrist remember...

Little children, it is the last hour: and as you have heard that Antichrist cometh, even now there are become many Antichrists: whereby we know that it is the last hour.

— 1 John 2:18 Douay-Rheims

I don't like Trump but dang, you're really grasping at straws to try to paint him as the antichrist now. Pushing to try to figure out whether someone is possibly a terrorist or not before allowing them to migrate to our country is not the same as denying anyone freedom of religion.

You are no better than those who have accused previous presidents of being the antichrist- just stirring the pot for lack of anything better to do.

a reply to: Jenisiz

The book at the end of the Bible isn't called "Revelations". It is titled "The Revelation of Jesus Christ".

The Catholicism is a Christian denomination so you don't need to specify Catholic and Christian Bibles because they are all Christian Bibles.

Everyone thinks they are "spiritual" (and they probably are), regardless of faith.

There is prophecy to support the idea that the anti-Christ will be a homosexual of mixed Assyrian/Hebrew descent.

Trump is 12 times bankrupt. He is not the embodiment of wealth, that is only the propaganda 'fake news'. He has never made the list of top ten wealthiest. The World's Billionaires From Wikipedia.

I doubt that the US even rates a mention in the Bible.

Perhaps you could start by re-reading the Revelation of Jesus Christ to see what the prophecies actually say about the anti-Christ and decide for yourself, rather than what is portrayed in the media and different interpretive works.

I find that if you take it that it is describing things at face value, rather than guessing that everything means something else, you get a remarkably clear and unambiguous narrative.

a reply to: Jenisiz

The ''possibility'' is noticeable but only to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear. and even that is open for discussion on who might or might not be capable of those distinctions.

Myself, I do not hold with the notion of an ''Antichrist'' in the fundamentalist sense but allow for the possibility in a more general, iconic or arch-typical sense. And even there I wonder it that possibility should be limited to a single person or possibly a whole philosophy.

If we hold to the idea that the New Testament was written by men to exalt the virtue or right behavior and belief in line with a sustainable society and all of that was tied up with the teachings of a man they called Christ, then any philosophy or societal tendencies that run contrary to that system of faith might be seen as ''anti-Christ''.

I think that ''Anti-Christ'' is a boogieman set up to scare us all into evaluating our leaders with that ''potential'' in mind. The potential to sway so many people with their sweet words of promise that people abandon their own ability to question reality and make their own decisions. In this light, the whole nature of voting by Party lines could be seen as anti-christ.

When I was young there were people who suggested Nixon was the Anti Christ, and at the time I thought about it. With that criteria I also considered Reagan and Bush, Clinton and Obama. All held sway over the minds of people not willing or capable of standing on their own existential considerations of right and wrong.

For me though, Trump offers a more extreme example of just how far a group of people will go to defend the one they hold to be their spearhead, the one they will rally behind and carry the torch for. Anti-Christ? I don't believe in antichrist in a singular person, but if I did, he would be at the top of my list for watching very closely.

But what is astonishing to me is the number of devout Christians and believers in the words of Jesus and the Bible who consider this guy to be God's vehicle on Earth at this time and place. That does smack of antichrist to me.

a reply to: Jenisiz

but am increasingly more curious as to why Obama was considered the antichrist while it's only until now, this presidency, have I seen religion utilized in such a consistent manner.

Then you must be too young to remember Ol Bush number 2. The guy actually said that God told him to go invade Iraq.

First, I'm spiritual and not religious in any sense

I find that generally the people who say that really don't believe in anything. Faith is a concept lost on them. Its a lazy way of avoiding the topic of what comes next.

Trump has a group of about 30 Christian patriots that do nothing but come to the White House each morning and pray for the safety of the country, and to guide the President to make the right decisions. How are things like this a bad thing? If people like you believe in nothing, then why are you all so generally aggressive to the people who do?