China Has Withheld Samples of a Dangerous Flu Virus

a reply to: Metallicus

China is the boogie man we like to blame but the decline in US manufacturing stems more from US corporations looking for cheap labor.

I think the US citizens are getting more ill effects then China. What is the bail out to farmers $6 billion? You and I are paying for that in one way or another. I live in farming country and Farmers are already in a tight spot, especially small farms. China don't seem to worried yet.

a reply to: Sillyolme

I drove school bus for many years, always special needs, and was constantly exposed. Vaccines help, not just me but in the amount of sickness around me.

If your healthy like you or I it's less important then if your already compromised.

What are the chances they're withholding for a real reason?
What if it's lab grown?
The human population is way out of control, and China has known that for many years. At this point, we're so far out of control that a major plague might be the only answer. If we don't get our breeding problem under control, within a few generations the planet will be overrun and we will run out of resources to keep everyone fed.
Clean water is already a problem in parts of tree US and China. We drill wells deep into the earth for water that hasn't been disturbed for thousands of years, then we drain it within a few decades. Corporations abuse them and ship that water off by the tanker truck to other places that don't have water. It's like we're racing to the bottom.

For all we know, they are doing trial runs on viruses, trying to figure out how to save the species without killing all of us.

“Countries don’t own their viral samples any more than they own the birds in their skies,” said Andrew C. Weber, who oversaw biological defense programs at the Pentagon during the Obama administration. “Given that this flu virus is a potential threat to humanity, not sharing it immediately with the global network of W.H.O. laboratories like C.D.C. is scandalous. Many could die needlessly if China denies international access to samples.” For over a decade, epidemiological data and samples have been used as trade war pawns.

Given the huge power which the WHO wields the Chinese seem to have a legitimately hardened policy . While the CDC could in theory order all immigration and imports from China to stop , for example , the World Health Organisation can slap red tape all over an entire country as well . 'Health concerns' especially serious ones can be used as a form of weaponry , they are multi-diverse in this respect , medicine is more effective than military intervention at killing in most cases , and with the 'immediate effect clause' of doctors advice , it's a mobile method of ongoing control as well .
The Chinese , probably legitimately view the UN which oversees the World Health Organisation , as being worth their membership even though largely a tool of American interests . However on some levels , notably this 'critical level' of co-operation with the health department , as being the point where full co-operation stops .
In a world where international players do take shady advantages sometimes , I should think the Chinese naturally want to see to their own biosecurity , being as that is one way of putting an end to the challenges which the country poses as of late .

a reply to: an325nt

The chances are not that great.

By virtue of the number of people and the conditions they tend to live in in China, it's a wonderful living laboratory.

A lot of Chinese farmers live practically on top of their chickens and pigs who also live practically on top of each other. The various flu strains we get generally start out in birds or swine and get passed back and forth and then typically get passed to a people who live in very close proximity to those animals.

When a virus like the flu makes a jump into people, it can sometimes mutate to become human to human transmissible and that's when a new flu strain is born.

True flu pandemics only occur when the virus strain in question is a novel one, meaning one that our human immune systems have not encountered. The 1918 strain that caused the Spanish Flu epidemic was like this. What most people don't realize is that even though it killed so many, the illness itself was never more than a very bad flu illness, certainly it was not lethal. What killed people was our body's response to it. A strong immune system can actually kill you trying to help you, and that's the biggest danger from a novel flu strain. It takes the young and healthy. During such a pandemic, the very old and very young are in danger like they always are from the flu, maybe slightly more because it's going to be a strong flu, but this time the flu also kills the very young and healthy through immune over-response.

a reply to: an325nt

It's possible. Or, the lizard aliens are developing a virus to make human meat more tender and tasty.

But, we already know Trump can be abrasive, many of his supporters consider that a plus. So, China is reacting predictably.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: MteWamp

Never had a flu vaccine. Never had the flu. I just turned sixty one. I hardly ever get sick.

Nor have I.

Here's to having a kick-ass immune system!


I'm buying...

lmao a reply to: MteWamp

originally posted by: Metallicus
The flu vaccines are BS anyway and full of mercury. You are taking a risk every me you take one not to mention the chance that it is even effective is around 10-15%. Also, China is getting what they deserve for cheating and screwing the U.S. for years in trade. You should be thanking Trump for actually standing up to them.

the effectiveness is always a crapshoot...they have to look at th info and make a best guess and those go in the shot..oh by the way you can ask for the shot without mercury (thimersol)...and No I am not big on flu shots only had one and I an old!!!

It just seems to me that this kind of resource should be freely shared with the rest of the world, outside of the influence of politics.

There is an infrastructure in place to securely disseminate these samples to the various "trusted" participants in the on-going effort to battle potential pandemic influenza viruses.

Even though the seasonal flu vaccine is a "best guess" product, there is evidence that it is effective enough to prevent many thousands of deaths per year.

For my part last year, I didn't catch any of the strains of the flu that the vaccine affected. However, I did manage to acquire both of the 2 major strains that it was ineffective for.


In any event, it is reasonable to believe that any agency capable of performing a detailed analysis of a virus should be able to do so before it becomes a global problem. It may be necessary to use the sophisticated tools of all of the global disease prevention specialist to actively defend against some novel strain.

It seems to me that a global pandemic could so adversely affect the world's economy that China could suffer a disproportionate economic loss as the world's largest exporter. Thus it is definitely in China's best interest to share their samples.

I think there are some misconceptions in both the Chinese and US governments about how these influenza samples should be classified. They aren't products. And they shouldn't be treated as such.


-dex

a reply to: DexterRiley

I find myself often complaining about the level of discourse on this site. I need to remember to acknowledge when it's done well. Thank you for an intelligent well written response. You summed things up well and stated your opinion. Didn't have to exaggerate or call anyone any names either.

Back on topic. As I said earlier in the thread this type of info has been shared more freely in the past, but has changed with trumps trade policy.

China has made a choice that is, in my opinion immoral. It could potential harm many people including their own citizens. It wouldn't be the first time for them.

We have little control over our own governments choices and even less over china's. All we can do is try to pick leaders that we hope will do that for us and lobby, protest, vote, whatever to try to influence them.

So the question I raised in the OP was:

Is the "bully" style of diplomacy the most effective way to deal with other governments?

You can disagree with my wording but call it what you will. Is trumps style of leadership really whats best for our country? Could someone more respectful have renegotiated treats without the back lash and ill will of other peoples?

And BTW I'm sure someone will correct me but I haven't seen any evidence that we have gained any major concessions from anyone and especially not China.

a reply to: villagesmithie

LOL! I deliberately tried to steer clear of the political aspects of your OP. But I'll give you my opinion.

In my daily life, I try to be fair and friendly in my dealings with other people. Even when I have the advantage, I tend not to exploit it. That's how I was raised. And that attitude is probably one of the reasons that I'm not a wealthy man; I'm just not mean enough.


One the other hand, when someone approaches me with a bully-like attitude, I will immediately respond in kind. And, in order to prevent a violent conflict, I will quickly break off communications and move on.

Now at the much higher level of government negotiations and diplomacy there are a lot more factors in play. And my simplistic approach is not appropriate.

In the case of President Trump's diplomatic methodology, (if you can call it that,) I'm finding myself less skeptical than I once was. Mr. Trump threw away the rule book, and he's taking a completely different tact to international relations.

Frequently, I find Donald Trump's behavior to be irrational, illogical, and befuddling. So much so that I've given up trying to figure out what the hell he's actually doing. These days, I'm just standing by; bemused by his unique persona and writing it all off to being above my pay grade. We really have no other option than to wait and see how things turn out.


IMHO

-dex