Transgender football star threatens to SUE Australian rules football league

originally posted by: kaylaluv

Case by case basis. When did the transition start (pre or post puberty), how long has the transition been going on (just started last week, or for several years), and what is the general body like at the time of competition (bone density/muscle mass, etc.)

I don't think we can do case by case... Tzone in any fashion natural or induced = male competition category... If a person happens to be a small trans female that took estrogen very early, and so may fit well in a female sport, and people think they should be able to do that, I need to remind everyone that there are small and fat and whatever males that don't do well in sports too, so I see it as a case either way that it sucks not to be a LeBron.

originally posted by: wtfatta

A lot of assumption in that. Let's make it all fair by doing away with gender leagues and go with chromo leagues.

I'm all for unisex everything...isn't that what we are talking about with the vast majority of all this?

a reply to: Xtrozero

You are implying that every trans female is a male who is faking it so they can compete against women. This is simply not true.

If you are a trans female who also happens to be athletic (fast, nimble, super coordinated, etc.) — just like any other female, you should have the chance to compete. The only condition should be when and for how long you were under treatment for your dysphoria.

Don’t forget, trans females don’t just take estrogen. They also usually take testosterone blockers as well. Over time, they just don’t have the same strength, endurance or mobility as any other male.

The effects that T blockers have on trans women are astounding. Dosing typically starts small and expands over the first nine months to a year, but when the medical regime is in full effect, trans women’s T levels are typically quite lower than cis women’s. The Olympic committee now requires a full year of testing T levels below 10 ng/dL before trans women are allowed to compete as female.

medium.com...

a reply to: DBCowboy

No, mathematics is not a contact sport.
Contact sports is where my line is drawn.

a reply to: Isurrender73

Common sense? Not in today's world. You have people who seriously believe a transitioned "female" is "equal" to a biological woman. They aren't..science proves that, but some people still don't care if biological female athletes are at a disadvantage. Look at the controversy over MMA fighter Fallon Fox. She was born a man, got married, had a daughter, served in the military and then transitioned into a female. UFC women's champ Ronda Rousey and UFC female bantamweight Miesha Tate won't fight trans women, because they have an 'unfair advantage' in mixed martial arts competition.

Joe Rogan came out in strong opposition to Fallon Fox receiving licensing,[8] with Rogan stating "First of all, she's not really a she. She's a transgender, post-op person. The operation doesn't shave down your bone density. It doesn't change. You look at a man's hands and you look at a woman's hands and they're built different. They're just thicker, they're stronger, your wrists are thicker, your elbows are thicker, your joints are thicker. Just the mechanical function of punching, a man can do it much harder than a woman can, period."

en.wikipedia.org...

Yet because we now live in a divisive, "politically correct" culture, it apparently doesn't matter if it isn't fair, or safe for biological woman athletes.

a reply to: shawmanfromny

Disgusting.

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: DBCowboy

No, mathematics is not a contact sport.
Contact sports is where my line is drawn.

But brain chemistries are different, endocrinology systems are different.


If people want equality, then we should have equality.


But I see many that don't want actual equality because some might have an advantage.

Be it size, speed, strength, body mass. . . .

There is never going to be equality.


It's expecting equal outcomes instead of equal opportunity.


I say either eliminate gender-based events or admit that things aren't and can never be "equal".

a reply to: DBCowboy

I agree. No male or female teams. Combine them and let the best make the team regardless of gender.

a reply to: kaylaluv

So if you're right and if you're about #100 best in the world as a man you should be about #100 as a woman after transition.

Any other outcome and you're wrong.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: DBCowboy

I agree. No male or female teams. Combine them and let the best make the team regardless of gender.

Exactly.

Let the best athlete compete.


Our society uses equality unequally.

Look at Hollywood, bastion of equality.

Yet they still have categories for best MALE actor and best FEMALE actor.

Why not have best ACTOR?

originally posted by: kaylaluv


You are implying that every trans female is a male who is faking it so they can compete against women. This is simply not true.

If you are a trans female who also happens to be athletic (fast, nimble, super coordinated, etc.) — just like any other female, you should have the chance to compete. The only condition should be when and for how long you were under treatment for your dysphoria.

I'm not implying anything here...Your conditions are way too vague and can be manipulated by the person(s) in charge who sees fit one way or the other.

Don’t forget, trans females don’t just take estrogen. They also usually take testosterone blockers as well. Over time, they just don’t have the same strength, endurance or mobility as any other male.

Don't care...a blind person, as example, and many other people have limitations too, so personal choices also comes with some limitations at times. I see law suits out the butt as one trans is allowed and another is not and when the differences might be small that would make it all worst. Need a hard line here or the door is full open to abuse.

As I said...a lot of people by no choice of their own can not play sports or can not compete very well in sports...I see this as no difference for people who may not be able to compete well by choices they have made.

originally posted by: roadgravel
There was a time when being on a team was due to some set of skills or qualifications.

So that is no longer true? Show up and you get a spot?

Sadly, that's the way it is going because we have a vocal group who don't want to accept the scientific reality that there are verifiable physical differences between the sexes.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Wait a second here, are you seriously trying to inject rationality into this purely emotional topic?

Shame on you.

But that really gets to the heart of it doesn't it. Either we are all the same, created equal with no biological differences or we are different both mentally and physically.

Either we are all the same which means there should be no segregation of the sexes for anything, because that would in itself be sexist, or we acknowledge the differences and what chromosomes you are born with will determine your sex.

Somehow I think we will be able to avoid reality for another 10-20 years with heavy costs before reality once again rears its ugly head.

Will we perhaps be a more competent and knowledgeable species for going through this suspension of reality?

originally posted by: Dwoodward85
a reply to: Abysha

I didn't see (I don't think) that thread but I won't accept the idea that you're attacking the trans person who was male going into female sports. I just think it's an unfair advantage. Start a different league or promotion or whatever for that sort of thing I just don't understand how it is okay...in fact I feel bad for the women and the few videos I have seen where women are pummeled by a man to woman trans. It shouldn't be allowed based on fairness at the least.

No. The thread I mentioned was about a trans man (he was assigned female at birth) who wasn't allowed to wrestle on the boys team. He looked like a dude, took testosterone and had the hormones of a dude, and wrestled like one too.

The school made him wrestle girls instead and dominated so everybody got upset.

ATS members immediately attacked him without reading the article, not realizing it was transphobic faculty that caused the situation in the first place.

It's like bathroom issues. Bigots think they'll like it their way until they see a muscular bearded trans man walk into the women's room because some evangelical alarmists made it illegal for him to use the men's. Or a wife gets mad seeing her husband walk out of the men's room followed by a tall super model with big breasts.

People don't understand trans topics here and I don't expect that to change until they take the time to research or talk to trans people.

Might makes right, eh?

What kind of bully even wants to "compete" with those who are incapable of their level of performance??? That's not competing. Competing requires a level playing field at the very least -- and this is not a level playing field. But more important, people who truly want to be their best seek out those who are better to compete against. In order to be best, one must pit their skills against those who are better. Not wreak havoc on those with inferior skills.

People of character and integrity know that how one plays the game is far more important than winning. People of character and integrity often have to make choices based on the realities -- not their egos. People of character and integrity know that to be best is much more than beating those who are weaker.

By definition, these people are beaters at most. Not winners.

a reply to: Abysha

Bigots...

Really?

...think they'll like it their way until they see a muscular bearded trans man walk into the women's room because some evangelical alarmists made it illegal for him to use the men's. Or a wife gets mad seeing her husband walk out of the men's room followed by a tall super model with big breasts.

Please don't presume to speak for others, please don't presume to judge others based on your presumptions, and please don't pretend these are the only issues surrounding transgenders in bathrooms. Please also don't pretend that forcing biological men -- including violent and deranged men -- into the Ladies Room is the only answer... much less pretending that those same awful men in the men's room won't be just as violent and deranged to any woman-to-male transgenders forced into the Men's Room.

There are other options. The very fact that these other options are rejected says much about the true motivations of the movement. They don't just want a "safe" space to pee when they are denying that "safe" space to pee to others. Especially those who are smaller and weaker.

People don't understand trans topics here and I don't expect that to change until they take the time to research or talk to trans people.

I have, in fact, taken the time to research trans issues. I have also spoken to many in the LGBT community about trans issues. And WE BOTH KNOW THERE IS A VERY UGLY SIDE TO THIS. And yet you ignore that very ugly side and judge and insult others who just "don't understand trans topics."

Not agreeing does not equal not understanding. Not caving to nonsense is not equal to not understanding. Not praising the nonsense does not equal not understanding.

I am very happy to let people be who they are. I also know that one cannot "live as" anyone except one's own self. No matter what one does, wears, says, etc., one is necessarily being one's own self. And I will very happily stand up for anyone's right to do for themselves and by themselves, or with other consenting adults.

I do care what others do to the people around them. And I especially care what some will do to all of us. I draw the line when anyone is trying to force their will on others.