Looks like our boys saw something cool out there

a reply to: nelloh62

It wasn't unexpected actually.

a reply to: Shadowhawk

I have a question that you might be the best authority to answer.
Would there ever be a circumstance that a black project needs to be pulled out of the hanger for an engine run and have the article under sufficient lighting for ground personnel to be able to work on some aspect of the craft that required those conditions for safety of the ground personnel without NV gear?
Also are the overhead lights over the apron there variable in lumen output?
Reason I ask is because the apron at the time wasn't under as bright of a light as it may appear in the photograph. It required a long exposure at max ISO, about 5 seconds if IIRC, in order to be able to pull sufficient enough light to discern any detail from the captured image.

And just for the record I'm not saying what this aircraft is, just that it had enough oddities between it and a B-2 that warranted us to seek out other opinions on the matter. I spent a great many hours going over and over the images and creating those analysis images to make sure it wasn't just a case of seeing something that wasn't there and to fully take into account both evidence for and against the aircraft being B-2.

originally posted by: FredT

originally posted by: weavty1
Interesting, however I’m leaning towards it being a B-21 and B-2... bait and switch. B-21 landed at night, put a B-2 out in the morning, same spot. Classic bait & switch perhaps?

Not like they are above that kind of thing. They left a B-2 out on the ramp at Palmdale all night too

The Texas sightings comes to mind.

AF: "See, it was a B2, we will fly them again just to prove it!"

a reply to: Sammamishman

Actuality I can give a bit of personal perspective on NVG

We fly with Gen IV (GEN-III OMNI-VII for the miltary). While it is fine for looking out to see objects / hazards, it is almost impossible to do patient care. I'm not sure the level of work that would be required in this case on dark runway and of course we use the NVG as a safety thing for hazards etc. I'm not sure how much productive work could be done on an aircraft in those conditions. Im thinking you could fuel an aircraft etc, but open a panel and mess around with electronics maybe not

a reply to: FredT

Depending what you are doing and if you have i.r illuminators you can actually get lines into people and obviously do chest tubes.

Granted they are not in circulator collapse and obviously visible light is prefered.

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: FredT

Depending what you are doing and if you have i.r illuminators you can actually get lines into people and obviously do chest tubes.

Granted they are not in circulator collapse and obviously visible light is prefered.

True but our NVG is strictly for safety and outside traffic. If I'm putting in a chest tube or intubating (or both as has happened) then we go full lights etc. But we are not the military nor are we in a combat zone so we operate under different rules.

a reply to: FredT

last off topic thing from me,

are you ALS? where i am they only let M.D's and ALS trained guys get on the chopper i have only been on it a few times with a MD who im buddies with and they were all GSW's that were mildly life threatening 2 being hunting accidents one to the left hand and the other to the pelvis and they were just to far for a bus to get there in a reasonable time.

ill have to ask them next time i see them if and how often they use any NV stuff. most of the traumas that get life flighted are in the city limits so there is no need for them.


back on topic:

what did the DOD/AF say to you guys about the pic other than it was a B-2? did they want your info and what gear you guys used? i would be surprised if they just left it at it's a B-2 go ahead and post it, granted we here for the most part are pretty educated and have various levels of experience but still it clearly isn't a B-2 granted we can't I.D it but just the fact we know what it isn't goes pretty far.

a reply to: penroc3

They got all my information, email and phone number, where and when it was shot, equipment used, all that fun stuff.

a reply to: FredT

I've done maintenance and been present for engine changes, including leak checks, by Lite-All. It sucks. I can't imagine having to do that by IR or NVG.

a reply to: Zaphod58

are there any others that they put the kibosh on? Was it OSI or the public relations officer that you spoke to, the reason i ask is because in my mind depending who called you back or took the call would indicate how serious they were taking it.

and do you think some of the responders in this thread is 'them' trying to persuade others to the official B2 story? I'm surprised that as far as i can tell this was not picked up by allot more people, you guys got a great shot and it's been pretty radio silent.

a reply to: penroc3

My buddy dealt with them, but I think it was OSI that took the info.

The responses have largely been, "it's obviously a B-2", "I see a few odd things, but I'm pretty sure it's a B-2", "whoever took these pictures should be: thrown in jail/ hung/ taken out and shot(I've seen all three depending on where it was posted)", "it's illegal to take pictures of the base", "China and Russia send their thanks", along with at least one email that wasn't pleased.

We knew it was probably going to be unpleasant, but it's been worse than we ever expected.

a reply to: Zaphod58

jesus that's awful! It always shocks me when people wish death on other people.

i think it's safe to say that there are measures that can be taken to really really hide an aircraft from the public if they wish. I can think of at least two bases off hand that if they were sent the men and some of the equipment there would be no issues, and with the blow up hangers they have for the B2 that opens up the possibility whatever this is could be way out of the public's gaze.

the B21 and 180 are what i would consider to be gray projects at this point, they are going to be in the public so no biggie, as we know there are somethings that had no press releases and are still a secret to this day.

a reply to: FredT

Fredt ... medic or or md.....not normal to hear people talk about tubing people...and inserting chest tubes..I for one do love 2 trauma..or sister hospital is lv 1 ..I have seen so e crazy ass gun victims....sorry to be off topic !

A footnote in aviation and Internet history I think it all be.Remember the Journalist that outed the Beast of Kandahar?World went Oooooohhh Aaaaahhhhhhh..Not "die" for releasing secrets..Or has society so changeable these days

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: penroc3

My buddy dealt with them, but I think it was OSI that took the info.

The responses have largely been, "it's obviously a B-2", "I see a few odd things, but I'm pretty sure it's a B-2", "whoever took these pictures should be: thrown in jail/ hung/ taken out and shot(I've seen all three depending on where it was posted)", "it's illegal to take pictures of the base", "China and Russia send their thanks", along with at least one email that wasn't pleased.

We knew it was probably going to be unpleasant, but it's been worse than we ever expected.

For what it's worth, here is my humble opinion on things. They are aviation enthusiasts and had the good luck to get a shot of something interesting. It is clear Zaph is a patriot of his country and would never intentionally divulge anything he shouldn't. From the info above, he gave the Air Force ( and whoever else ) the clear chance to put a stop to the pictures being published. They opted not to do so, and they came out with their version of whatever it is. So, all that rubbish of hang 'em high, and jail 'em is ludicrous . If you have a problem with the photo, speak to the AF.
I, for one, say well done Zaph for keeping this forum interesting for us aviation nerds.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: penroc3

My buddy dealt with them, but I think it was OSI that took the info.

The responses have largely been, "it's obviously a B-2", "I see a few odd things, but I'm pretty sure it's a B-2", "whoever took these pictures should be: thrown in jail/ hung/ taken out and shot(I've seen all three depending on where it was posted)", "it's illegal to take pictures of the base", "China and Russia send their thanks", along with at least one email that wasn't pleased.

We knew it was probably going to be unpleasant, but it's been worse than we ever expected.

Wow some people just exceed at being “classy” don’t they? That is the most absurd thing, did they not comprehend the part about y’all not even wanted to post it public without a hard no from the AF they had their way out but they stuck to the story therefor the “leak” is fair game, anyone who thinks y’all had ulterior or nefarious motives is not quite right in between the ears.

originally posted by: nelloh62
So, all that rubbish of hang 'em high, and jail 'em is ludicrous . If you have a problem with the photo, speak to the AF.
I, for one, say well done Zaph for keeping this forum interesting for us aviation nerds.

The notion is rubbish period. If civilians not under NDA or anything get their hands on sensitive information without breaking the law, its their right and choice in any free country to publish said material as they see fit. Even and especially against the expressed wishes of the government.
Its the responsibility of the government and not the public to guard a nations secrets. Especially if and when secrecy primairly upheld to hide waste, incompetence, corruption and crimial enterprise from the public. O
Zaphod and the others did way more than was required of them.
Their decision to publish needs to be applauded and nothing else.

a reply to: penroc3

Funny thing is I worked for a company that made defense parts and they had little in the way of security. I just started a job connected to a large software company and their security measures for their hardware segment would make Lockheed and NG jealous.

originally posted by: Sammamishman
a reply to: penroc3

Funny thing is I worked for a company that made defense parts and they had little in the way of security. I just started a job connected to a large software company and their security measures for their hardware segment would make Lockheed and NG jealous.

Yeah corporate IP can be some very touchy stuff indeed.