For those with faith in God: God and the concept of time.

my understanding;

God is beyond time, but He has established a timeline (possibly to make it easier on us).

there was a creation moment.
there was a flood.
Jesus lived and was crucified and resurrected.
we are now living in the 'Gentile Age'.
upcoming events include a rapture, seven years tribulation, a millenial reign, a final rebellion, and final judgment.

Bible has several references to people 'resting' and waiting, even in Heaven ('How long, o Lord?' Rev 6:10)

not sure whether 'time' as we understand it will continue. I would think it would. don't know how calculated but maybe new start; 'Year One of the Eternal Reign'.

your family will stay where they are until the normal order of things moves them on.

as I understand it; our glorified bodies will be much better than what we have now, and I'm sure our intellect will increase exponentially, but we will never be omniscient.

God is eternal because of Who He is. the where is irrelevant; the Word says heaven itself will pass away.

hope this helps.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Yes, God must be outside time, outside creation. He is everywhere and everywhen. Doesn't He say He is the Alpha and Omega? How can you be both beginning and end if you're bound to time like we are?

We could explore all of known creation and still not find God because he's not in creation. At best, we'll find evidence of his handiwork.

a reply to: norhoc

Even decay happens over the span of an interval. I suppose we can leave it without name, but it doesn't change the fact that there is an interval that happens between your birth and your death. Call it whatever you like, but it's still there and must pass and whether you choose to believe it exists or not, it will still pass at the same steady rate.

originally posted by: RobFox
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Is there time in heaven though for us?

IMO No. No one has came back from heaven to tell us if God wears a watch or if their are any clocks.

IMO someone who never dies..... like God ......is not interested in time but in results.

a reply to: RobFox

As for time being a human construct, I agree. It's nothing more than a form of measurement for the motion of the universe. There is no past or future, there is just an eternal present where things are moving.
But we need things the average person can wrap their head around so time exists.

As for the bible no good asking any of us. The bible already has the answers to your question.
All you shall get is our opinions on it. Not what Christian texts say and how you may yourself interpret them.
I suggest going to read them for yourself, especially the last parts, Revelations to where it say's "The End" on the last page.

Amazingly I've yet to met a Christian personally who has read this part of the bible, or know what it actually says.
Most of their personal views on what heaven is like, is absolutely nothing like the Bible says it is.
Joys of getting your faith info from sermons instead of actually reading for ones self.

Any ways on to the meat and potatoes...
I'm not Christian but I have read the Old and New Testaments.

From what I recall the bible says what happens when we die and what happens in the future after the Earth is finally glassed towards the end of the book.
Again this is just me recalling things here, no line for line quotes.

First if you die before 'end times' you do not go to heaven to be with him. You get switched off, and put in a toybox under God's throne. Not sure where many Christians people get their concepts of heaven and what it entails from. But it's not the bible.
You do not get wings and play a harp. Humans are not Angels. Never will be. 2 different species like dogs to cats.
You'll stay in that box in standby mode until you're either called on to join the Jesus Zombie Army, or until it's time to return to the new Earth 2.0 when God lands his mother ship and lives among his chosen few as 'one of us'

You won't see any one while in that box. Relatives, friends, ANYONE. You're switched off.
The only time you'll see anyone is as I said when the game finally comes to an end.
And then you may see your loved ones. You may not.

Why? Because we all get a mind wipe and genetic ties to people no longer matter.
Everyone you meet will feel familiar, but your memories of your past life will be gone.

You could run into your mother and feel like you know her, but not think of her as your mother and if you met a former lover it'd feel the same as meeting your mother.
You and everyone else will have no name. Well except one, God will have a name for you, but only he will know it.
He might call you "John" everyone else might just refer to you as brother and sister.

You won't see Mum or Dad or your wife or you're best friend Bob. You'll just see other humans. You'll view all others equally.

If you're a Christian and your friends or family are Jewish, then there's another reason you might not see them.
Only God's Chosen people get to live in his hybrid City/Mother Ship with him.
The rest of us we get to live outside, essentially as we do now. Still work, still have to eat, sleep and drink. Basically live the mortal life as an immortal.
Ah that good old class divide, it's everywhere.

tl;dr answer
You don't see 'family' in the Christian Bible heaven. Genetic ties are irrelevant in the spirit form and when you have a new unbirthed insta-body.

Time for God Vs. Time for us.
Time exists differently to God also according to the bible. I would imagine such a being having a different perspective to everything. Thing is being so, such a being needs to relay it in a way we mere mortals can understand.

Kind of how Jesus preached basic life style teachings using parables to make it easier and still ended up saying when asked why he taught as he did.
"humans are stupid so they can't understand basic concepts, so I say it in a way that a child should understand and still the morons don't get it."
Like how he would say stuff about 'building a house on solid foundation', 'planting seeds in fertile ground.' in relationship to building a good life off of a solid foundation of morals, and his audience would just sit there scratching their heads.

So God (or his ghost writers I should say) tries to put it in a way we can process. hence references to a million years being a second to him in his holy texts.
Some people think the Earth took him a literal 7 days to make. But 7 days in 'God Time' could be 7million to 7 billion years when using his scale of time as we understand it.
And even that may just be terms we can understand, not how time actually works for him.

Anyways going off track with what time has to do with anything here......guess I am just trying to say you cannot look at these things from a human perspective, you kind of need to try as best you can to view it all from a God POV.
Just an eternity to God might be different to an eternity for us.

Which brings us to the question that if you lived for an eternity in Christian afterlife, would you become a God yourself?
Well to a currently existing human you may appear God like but living for Eternity just makes you immortal. Nothing else.
God's goal according to the bible is not for us to become god's like him, but for him to become more human so he can live among us.
Everything else seems to point to us living an eternity as we do now. Minus the materialistic things we have but are unnecessary to life.

The exception being the 'few' who get a membership card and a bedroom in the "Pearly Gate City" and get to hang out with God daily that I mentioned earlier. Those Jewish folk who earned enough frequent flier points for a golden ticket. The chosen people.
They from what I recall might get a few perks and special abilities above the rest of us (like not having to eat and sleep), but are still not Gods themselves.
There is nothing in the bible I am aware of that states differently.
No super powers granted, no snap your fingers and make half the universe die. No pulling fishes and loaves from out of a hat.

Why would God want us to be, or make us God's to begin with any way? Our whole existence is simply to exist for and love and worship him according to the Bibles.
We're just an experiment to see if one of his creations if given freewill will choose to love him without being forced to because being loved by angels who are programmed to love and obey you without question gets boring after a while.

Us becoming God's ourselves would contribute nothing to that cause.

So tl;dr answer to Eternity = God?:
According to the bible regardless of how long you're into Level 2 of your Christian life experience, you will not be a God. Just a possibly glorified human is all.
We cannot handle God in his current form. He is head exploding stuff, so he needs to come down to our level.

I urge anyone with a claim of being Christian or whose beliefs are founded into Christianity to actually take some time and read the damn books their entire religious experience is built upon.

Just be warned, it's not all sitting on clouds with wings and harps chilling with friends and family and if you think it is you may be shocked at how things really are according to your God's supposed own words through his translators.
It can be quite a horror show actually.

If you're willing to see the real bible is nothing like your Sunday School taught or Preacher sermonized from then it's the place to go to for already existing answers relating to your beliefs questions.

a reply to: RobFox

Time is a concept.
Concepts veil the truth.
If the mind was not full of concepts then the stillness would be unveiled.
Be still and know that I am God.

Realise the non conceptual.

originally posted by: Metallicus
There are a lot of God haters on this site. I am not religious, but it has been my experience that spiritually immature people enjoy flaunting their self-perceived superiority over others. I would report the disruptive folks to the mods.

Stay strong to your beliefs whatever they may be. Only you can choose your spiritual path.

when one person flaunts their self perceived superiority, we call them arrogant.

when a million people flaunt their self perceived superiority, we call them religious.

when an entire species flaunts their self perceived superiority, we call them a virus.

originally posted by: RobFox
Time is a human construct. Since God lives outside of our concept of time (He is in past, present, and future) when we die we go to be with Him in heaven,

Many are called, but few are chosen.
Many will die permenantly, others will be rebirth until they pass their spritual test.

originally posted by: RobFox
will my relatives that are still here on Earth the moment I die be in heaven/purgatory/hell when I get there?

Yes..if you are deem worthy. Otherwise, your memory will be erased, and you will be sent back to earthly life.

originally posted by: RobFox
I ask since there is no time in heaven and now I’m outside of time. Another question, will I just go to the end of time and final judgement?

You are judged the moment you die. If you pass, then you may see the father. Else, your memory will be erased and you no longer have your past family. All ties will be broken and you will have to start all over again in your next mortal life.

If you commit deadly sins, then it's all over for you. God will put you to sleep peacefully forever. Buddhism called this state as Nirvana. I called it permenant death. Jesus did not teach this, but I will tell you anyway, because God loves everyone.

But, If you live in the end time, then final judgement will be harsh on you. Not a single soul believe in God anymore. So, I will leave this to Jesus to decide, whatever fate befell to the Israelites descendants.
The Israelites have blood convenant with God. The others will be assisted by their own prophets or spiritual leaders. The variables are too great for me to describe. A lot of people will suffer but no one will die until they are judged.

originally posted by: RobFox
without stretching too far beyond what you’re asking:

When I get to Eternity, will I be omnipresent like God is omnipresent? In other words, will I become more like God?

No.

originally posted by: RobFox
I guess the answer to another question might help us answer that question:

Is God eternal because of where He lives or because of who He is?

God is eternal because He is who He would be He is.

a reply to: RobFox

God is just a word. God is a word that is a representation of every possible idea we can have. God represents all that is, all that will be, all that could ever be imagined, and all that could ever possibly be realized. God is unique in our language because it represents all words and semantic associations. God is more than the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If the Flying Spaghetti Monster represented everything God represented, then it would just be God with a different spelling.

Many religious traditions believe in a pantheistic type God where all of existence is evidence for God's being. And other traditions believe in a Abramaic God who exists in our words, language, and deeds as we judge each other. If you believe in an omnipotent God, then since God is just a word, then God can be both pantheistic and Abramaic at the same time. Many people just accept that there is not a single shred of evidence for the existence of God but then choose to believe in a particular type of God out of faith. It may be delusional nonsense to atheists, but for people of faith, holding the assumption of a particular type of God exists and is real allows them to live a particular type of life experiencing a sense of a divine nature to existence. Is it right, is it wrong, on the cosmic timescale everything we think and do is completely insignificant. But it is also completely insignificant that it is insignificant. So we might was well choose a particular delusion that gives us divine meaning in our lives since it really doesn't matter either way.

If you accept the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, then a pantheistic type God can only be realized by every possible quantum state realized in existence. In one space-time dimension you marry Susan. In another you marry Jane. Every choice we make gets played out cross every other possible choices in the larger multi-verse of time.

God's experience of time is event driven by reality being realized and not by the experience of time. Being omnipotent is boring. The Universe is not a clockwork Matrix type Universe with hard determinism. At the smallest point of measurement reality is non-deterministic. God seems to be obsessed with having unimaginable possibilities and random quantum events bubbling up to the macro level influencing the choices people make. God seem to love being surprised by how reality gets realized.

originally posted by: ElGoobero

God is beyond time, but He has established a timeline (possibly to make it easier on us).

I like this way of thinking about it. God is why the fabric of reality experiences time. God is why electrons move and have charge. God is why atoms have nucleus. God is why gravity exists. God is what animates the laws of physics to work at all. Mass is just energy wrapped up in a bundle and energy only exists in the mind of God. Reality is one giant wave of energy where everything is connected to everything else from the beginning of time to the very last moment of time.

originally posted by: RobFox
Since God lives outside of our concept of time (He is in past, present, and future) ...

If one considers that our concept of time consists of the past, present, and future, then the contradiction in that way of thinking might become more obvious.
So you get (translating what you said there in a more mathematical logical manner):

"our concept of time" = "past, present, and future"

Then the statement:

God lives outside of "our concept of time" = God lives outside of "past, present, and future". Which conflicts with saying that "He [God] is in past, present, and future" (which is a weird vague way of phrasing things anyway). Not to mention that the former statement also conflicts with the designation "eternal" for God (an indication of how much time God has existed, i.e. how long God has existed). You will find no bible verse that teaches that God exists outside of time (or "lives outside of our concept of time", to use your words) and saying that God has existed eternally is the exact opposite of saying he exists outside of time. That stuff comes from Babylon the Great which consists of people who love talking in contradictions (claiming both the things I just mentioned for God).

Anyway:
Myth 3: All Good People Go to Heaven

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: ElGoobero

God is beyond time, but He has established a timeline (possibly to make it easier on us).

I like this way of thinking about it. God is why the fabric of reality experiences time. God is why electrons move and have charge. God is why atoms have nucleus. God is why gravity exists. God is what animates the laws of physics to work at all. Mass is just energy wrapped up in a bundle and energy only exists in the mind of God. Reality is one giant wave of energy where everything is connected to everything else from the beginning of time to the very last moment of time.

god is basically the gravitational force?

originally posted by: RobFox
I had asked this question in the philosophy room, didn't get anywhere with it. Instead of constructively trying to answer the question, the posters would try to hijack the thread and try to dismantle or refute my belief in God, which isn't the question. A debate on the existence of God is a totally different thread.. Admins feel free to close that thread in philosophy section.

Time is a human construct. Since God lives outside of our concept of time (He is in past, present, and future) when we die we go to be with Him in heaven, will my relatives that are still here on Earth the moment I die be in heaven/purgatory/hell when I get there? I ask since there is no time in heaven and now I’m outside of time. Another question, will I just go to the end of time and final judgement?

For one, when the Bible states that he is the alpha and the omega, its not saying he is outside of our concept of time, it is in fact saying that God literally IS time. It is saying that he is the first that ever was and the last that ever will be. Time is not something that exists apart from his nature. Time is apart of the very fabric of who he is. When he is described as omniscient, its not because he is looking into a crystal ball or anything, its because what we call the future has already occurred to God, because he has already seen it. And no, final judgement will not come for you until the appointed time actually occurs. There is no fast forward button, time is what it is no matter what, and it speeds up for no one.

originally posted by: RobFoxWe might call the time beyond time Eternity. I suppose we might call living in such a dimension eternal life. So, perhaps the question might be rephrased this way, without stretching too far beyond what you’re asking:

When I get to Eternity, will I be omnipresent like God is omnipresent? In other words, will I become more like God?

Omnipresent? No, not now or at any time in the future. And when you say "omnipresent like God", in what way are you assuming we would? In heaven, there are three that bear record, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It is by that third part of his being that he is "everywhere", because the holy spirit is defined in scripture as his "eyes", and it is by his "eyes" that he see's all, knows all, and is everywhere present. But is the Father himself "everywhere"? Technically, no, not according to the true Biblical definition of his "omnipresence". Your assumptions about his omnipresence fits more the description of the new age, eastern mystical version of "god", where he is described as being without form and all encompassing, what one would also call a form of both pantheism and panentheism mixed together. That is not at all the God of the Bible, so since he himself isn't actually "everywhere", then neither will you.

originally posted by: RobFoxI guess the answer to another question might help us answer that question:

Is God eternal because of where He lives or because of who He is?

He is eternal because of who he is, not because of where he is. If you want scriptural proof of this, then you needn't look any further than Revelation. When he descends onto the new earth with new Jerusalem, it doesn't say anything about heaven coming with him. Heaven is heaven, earth is earth, and God is God, all by himself.

(Revelation 21:1-3) "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. [2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. [3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

That eternality, or immortality will be given to us when the time comes. For the saints of new Jerusalem, it will be in the form of immortal bodies that Jesus described as being like the angels in heaven, in the sense that death will no longer apply to them. For the nations, or those whose names was found in the book of life on judgement day, it will come in the form of the tree of life.

(Matthew 22:29-32) "Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. [30] For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. [31] But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, [32] I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

(Revelation 22:1-3) "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. [2] In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. [3] And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:"

(John 14:6) "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

a reply to: Dcopymope

Omnipresent? No, not now or at any time in the future. And when you say "omnipresent like God", in what way are you assuming we would? In heaven, there are three that bear record, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It is by that third part of his being that he is "everywhere", because the holy spirit is defined in scripture as his "eyes", and it is by his "eyes" that he see's all, knows all, and is everywhere present.

Yes now!!

Saint Francis of Assisi said "What we are looking for is what is looking".
Look right NOW at what is actually appearing NOW.

Where are you? Everywhere and nowhere baby!

Have you ever seen what is looking through your eyes? Aren't 'your' eyes always present?

The problem is that there is a belief in 'you' and a belief in 'God'.................when the two become one the kingdom shall be revealed.

Who God is and where God is are intrinsically tied together. God is the lowest frequency waveform of the highest amplitude. The largest,slowest orbit in the biverse, and no, there is no particle detecting this wave. The particles can only approximate based on the phase conjugate which doesn't have near the reach nor accuracy.

Creation is derived from the fundamental wave, everything is high frequency compared to God.

Remember kids we evolved dmt release at death for evolutionary purpose. An adaptation for survival.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Saint Francis of Assisi said "What we are looking for is what is looking".
Look right NOW at what is actually appearing NOW.

Saint Francis of Assisi doesn't learn astronomy. If he does, he should knows, stars are million light years away from us.

Our night sky is not in the present. It is the mirror of the past. Some supernova stars we see now, actually doesn't exist anymore some time million years ago. We have mathematics to calculate light speed and distance.

So basically, by gazing at night sky and stars, you are living both In the present and in the past. How about the future? We don't see the future but we can make predicament base on constant events.

Other than entrophy flows in time arrow, time itself has no meaning outside Earth.

originally posted by: EasternShadow

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Saint Francis of Assisi said "What we are looking for is what is looking".
Look right NOW at what is actually appearing NOW.

...Some supernova stars we see now, actually doesn't exist anymore some time million years ago. ...
So basically, by gazing at night sky and stars, you are living both In the present and in the past.

past tense | LearnEnglish - British Council

Try not to get distracted with the part in between that I didn't bold. A coherent proper use of language generally is more convincing to me when promoting some kind of convoluted philosophy, no offense.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

Where are you? Everywhere and nowhere baby!

Please, no more contradictory talk, enough is enough. See my comment to EasternShadow.

1 Timothy 6:20,21

20 Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called “knowledge.” 21 By making a show of such knowledge, some have deviated from the faith.

May the undeserved kindness be with you.

originally posted by: Prene
Who God is and where God is are intrinsically tied together. God is the lowest frequency waveform of the highest amplitude. The largest,slowest orbit in the biverse, and no, there is no particle detecting this wave. The particles can only approximate based on the phase conjugate which doesn't have near the reach nor accuracy.

Creation is derived from the fundamental wave, everything is high frequency compared to God.

Remember kids we evolved dmt release at death for evolutionary purpose. An adaptation for survival.

originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: EasternShadow

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Saint Francis of Assisi said "What we are looking for is what is looking".
Look right NOW at what is actually appearing NOW.

...Some supernova stars we see now, actually doesn't exist anymore some time million years ago. ...
So basically, by gazing at night sky and stars, you are living both In the present and in the past.

past tense | LearnEnglish - British Council

Try not to get distracted with the part in between that I didn't bold. A coherent proper use of language generally is more convincing to me when promoting some kind of convoluted philosophy, no offense.

OK, how about do not trust your eyes?

Not everything you see happens now. They can happened in the past, but because of great distance, we can only see now. It's physic inverse-square law. It's how we measure astronomical distances.

Eyes can be deceived with illusion. Magicians do this frequently for shows.

Our night sky and stars is also an illusion of present and past.

PS: No offense taken. I'm fine with your grammatical correction.