Archaeologists explore a rural field in Kansas, and a lost city emerges

originally posted by: rickymouse
The Spanish were a very Jerky people back then, they took what they wanted to take and killed anyone who disagreed with them.

Said in best Monty Python voice........"No one expects the Spanish inquisition"

a reply to: Imagewerx


Haha!

Thought the same thing about the OP's post:

Who would have thought ?? I did not realize that the Spanish conquistadors made it all the way to Kansas. 

"No one expects the Spanish inquisition!"

originally posted by: JasonBillung
a reply to: 727Sky

Maybe they were just backward folks (by our standards) who could not accept any other way of living than their own? I feel awe for these folks who ventured out into the unknown, but also saddened by the fact that they treated the others they met with such cruelty, distain, and lack of compassion. Maybe we can take a hint fro our past mistakes?

I agree. Just because the Aztecs had large skull racks in the center of town and practiced human sacrifice and cannibalism is no reason to think they were devil worshipers.

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: rickymouse
The Spanish were a very Jerky people back then, they took what they wanted to take and killed anyone who disagreed with them. The head of government in Spain expected something for the expense of the exploration going on.

Spain was not the only country desiring world dominance.

Yep

Everyone pretty much was rather jerky back then and had been for thousands of years prior. Not killing one another on sight is a fairly new development. Conquest and raiding was the norm for most people. What made the 15-18th century unusual is that the Europeans developed superior tactics and technology and became far more organized and deadly than many others.

Thus the modern world came about.

A good book about that is Lawrence H. Keeley's War Before Civilization, ISBN 0-19-511912-6

www.amazon.com...

There were a lot of areas that had peaceful communities. Of course, those people were overthrown easily and the women carted off to be used and abused. You do not think that those people overthrowing and killing and plundering started civilization do you?

originally posted by: rickymouse


There were a lot of areas that had peaceful communities. Of course, those people were overthrown easily and the women carted off to be used and abused. You do not think that those people overthrowing and killing and plundering started civilization do you?

In some cases they did. The Sumerian took over the Ubaid and formed the their civilization. Various barbarians overran the Romans and slowly evolved into Europeans, the Chinese were conquered by several different groups each one being absorbed into the 'greater Han collective'. The Spanish certainly did that, as did the Portuguese, Dutch and others.

There is a myth about the noble peaceful savage - it wasn't particularly true.

The myth of the peace-loving "noble savage" is persistent and pernicious. Indeed, for the last fifty years, most popular and scholarly works have agreed that prehistoric warfare was rare, harmless, unimportant, and, like smallpox, a disease of civilized societies alone. Prehistoric warfare, according to this view, was little more than a ritualized game, where casualties were limited and the effects of aggression relatively mild. Lawrence Keeley's groundbreaking War Before Civilization offers a devastating rebuttal to such comfortable myths and debunks the notion that warfare was introduced to primitive societies through contact with civilization (an idea he denounces as "the pacification of the past").

Building on much fascinating archeological and historical research and offering an astute comparison of warfare in civilized and prehistoric societies, from modern European states to the Plains Indians of North America, War Before Civilization convincingly demonstrates that prehistoric warfare was in fact more deadly, more frequent, and more ruthless than modern war. To support this point, Keeley provides a wide-ranging look at warfare and brutality in the prehistoric world. He reveals, for instance, that prehistorical tactics favoring raids and ambushes, as opposed to formal battles, often yielded a high death-rate; that adult males falling into the hands of their enemies were almost universally killed; and that surprise raids seldom spared even women and children.

Keeley cites evidence of ancient massacres in many areas of the world, including the discovery in South Dakota of a prehistoric mass grave containing the remains of over 500 scalped and mutilated men, women, and children (a slaughter that took place a century and a half before the arrival of Columbus). In addition, Keeley surveys the prevalence of looting, destruction, and trophy-taking in all kinds of warfare and again finds little moral distinction between ancient warriors and civilized armies.

Finally, and perhaps most controversially, he examines the evidence of cannibalism among some preliterate peoples. Keeley is a seasoned writer and his book is packed with vivid, eye-opening details (for instance, that the homicide rate of prehistoric Illinois villagers may have exceeded that of the modern United States by some 70 times). But he also goes beyond grisly facts to address the larger moral and philosophical issues raised by his work. What are the causes of war? Are human beings inherently violent? How can we ensure peace in our own time? Challenging some of our most dearly held beliefs, Keeley's conclusions are bound to stir controversy.

www.amazon.com...

a reply to: HansluneEuropeans were in far northern Europe before the Romans were of any power. The line of Oden goes back to five hundred BC. And that is when that leadership (King Ode) originated, the people were there way before that. They were in Upper Europe for a very long time. That book seems to have a lot of fiction to it. Oden was not originally a god. He was a king. I have been studying the cultures of Northern Europe and India for quite some time.

Many of the buildings in India predate the ones from Rome by a thousand years and some of the structures in India are way nicer. The Italians do know how to capitalize on their area though.

a reply to: Hanslune

Hans,
I've read a very interesting treatise on how wide spread cereal grain cultivation fostered class differentiation and the rise of large intergroup conflict.
I think I saved a copy.

a reply to: Hanslune

The South Dakota site is a true rarity in the Plains because it has all the hallmarks of a massacre. Most of the burials found from that era show that there was little violence. A former student of mine spent most of two years combing reports to look for signs of domestic violence against women. She found too few to even write a paper, much less do a Masters thesis as was her plan. It seems they had alternatives to beating each other up to settle differences.

originally posted by: crimsongod21
Interesting I will have to keep an eye on this as it's in my backyard so to speak could be interesting to see what is found if anything.

it is in my backyard so to speak.if you think about where the walnut and Arkansas rivers meet up about at arkansas city area, its a great place to be and protect..if you know the area which sounds like you do.the Spanish made it to a area north of McPherson is there's a actual castle called Coronados castle. a Spanish helmet with a few other small artifacts were found in the area...as far as why would native americans would pick Kansas to settle..hmmmm. four seasons , endless buffalo great fishing , tons of wild life and that part of Kansas is like west Missouri .hilly not flat. thanks for this post.I lost my account info and its been a long time since I could post or reply and this was the 1st story..way cool...funny thing is after initial reports about this nothing else has been said or done...sad because its the 2nd and maybe 1st largest Indian city in the USA.

a reply to: 727Sky

Fascinating, thanks for sharing. I didn't know the Spanish reached that far, I thought Cabeza de Vaca's journey was the farthest they got. Hope they unearth more valuable material and get to know more of the history of the place.

a reply to: 727Sky

Goes to show, you never know what might be hiding beneath your feet! Nice find.

a reply to: Nightwalk

Spaniards likely made it all the way to Montana, Wyoming and probably the dakotas as well but not in a large state sponsored expeditions. By the 17th century they well into Piute/Shoshone territory in Eastern Cal/western Nev., as this was the time at which a band of Owens Valley Piute adopted the horse culture and moved into the southern plains to become known as the Comanche.