New battery invented at Glasgow University could revolutionise electric vehicles

Scientists at Glasgow University in Scotland have developed what they believe will be a game changer for electric vehicles.

A new battery which is recharged by topping up with a water-based "rust" mix will give the same range as petrol or diesel cars. The battery essentially uses the slurry and when requiring a charge the user will connect a hose that removes the dry material and then replaces it with the liquid material, fully charging the battery.

The scientists have still to scale up the technology, but his is really exciting for a number of reasons, and can be used in many applications.

www.glasgowlive.co.uk...

www.energylivenews.com...

a reply to: bobsa

The key to any kind of renewable or green energy is storage. Until we can hold the energy for later use it's just a pipe dream.

Hopefully this will lead somewhere but I have to wonder what the cost will be.
The breakthrough in the article doesnt give any real details.

a reply to: bobsa

Your title got my hope up real high, but as I read through the links, I could not find anything about their using "rust". I figured I had found a "gold mine" for the old cars I drive.
I did read where they are using a mixture with "nano-molecules" as a charge carrier, but nothing about rust.
I guess I'll have to patch them up and drive them a little longer.

a reply to: bobsa

They're a clever bunch the Scots. Telephone, television, penicillin, laws of electrodynamics and the deep-fried mars bar, among others.

"Fill 'er up. 3 gallons of slurry please."

a reply to: Bluntone22

That's what the battery is, no?

Sounds like an evolution of the little hydro cell toy cars you can buy.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: bobsa

The key to any kind of renewable or green energy is storage. Until we can hold the energy for later use it's just a pipe dream.

Hopefully this will lead somewhere but I have to wonder what the cost will be.
The breakthrough in the article doesnt give any real details.

I agree.

There are reasons why we still use petroleum, and have done so for well over a century.

It's high energy density, storability, and ease of manufacture is extremely difficult to match, at least with current technology.

It's also inexpensive, and relatively non-toxic. Especially compared to many other chemicals such as hypergolics, most of which also have a very high energy density, but are EXTREMELY toxic, such as hydrogen peroxide, hydrazine, and nitrogen tetroxide.

Sure, it's flammable, and probably not great for the environment, but at least it won't destroy organic material, such as skin, on contact, or dissolve lung tissue in any higher concentration than one part-per-million.

I don't doubt that we'll get there someday, but not today.

originally posted by: SlowNail
a reply to: Bluntone22

That's what the battery is, no?

Sounds like an evolution of the little hydro cell toy cars you can buy.

No idea. The articles quoted in the OP are a bit vague, and don't have enough detail to even come close to answering that question.

The details are a bit scarce at the moment, I would imagine the research will appear in a peer-reviewed journal shortly which will contain all the detail.

there could also be security reasons for not disclosing all the details yet. I'll do a patent search when I get the chance and post any results that come up.

a reply to: bobsa

Am I reading it correctly? Is the model that they're basing this theory on only at the nanoscale size right now?

From the Glasgow Live link:

Their ‘hybrid-electric-hydrogen’ flow battery, based upon the design of a nanoscale battery molecule can store energy, releasing the power on demand as electric power or hydrogen gas that can be used a fuel.

That feels like what they're saying here, and if so, they have a long way to go before it can do anything with vehicles. Still, I understand that baby steps are a good thing, so hopefully if/when this makes it to market, it's in a relatively flawless form and works well.

the 'slurry mix' of energized molecules sounds good except for the Toxicity Factor which is ignored for right now.

it will take decades for a roadway induction coil system can be built underneath the roadway surfaces which will recharge the on-board battery packs as-you-drive (think of old fashioned trolley tracks replaced by high-tech induction Lines)

~each mile we pass hundreds of electric (step Up) transformers on utility poles, leading into every house or business, going unused as boosters for a gridwork of electric sourcing to replenish batteries on board a EV~

keeping my fingers crossed for positive applications.... for at least the city/metro areas being retro-fitted for EV travel and combustion engines used for long-hauls transports/delivery only

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: bobsa

The key to any kind of renewable or green energy is storage. Until we can hold the energy for later use it's just a pipe dream.

Hopefully this will lead somewhere but I have to wonder what the cost will be.
The breakthrough in the article doesnt give any real details.

I wish there was some improvement with lithium ion or whatever, just that the batteries aren't damaged by running all the way down, like in storage. Rechargeable battery maintenance is a pain, for those little used devices.

a reply to: bobsa
Good that they are working on a better battery but this is the 10th time somebody has found it!....

3 November 2017 – Iron–air batteries promise a considerably higher energy density than present-day lithium-ion batteries. In addition, their main constituent – iron – is an abundant and therefore cheap material. Scientists from Forschungszentrum Jülich are among the driving forces in the renewed research into this concept, which was discovered in the 1970s. Together with American Oak Ridge National Laboratory (ORNL), they successfully observed with nanometre precision how deposits form at the iron electrode during operation. A deeper understanding of the charging and discharging reactions is viewed as the key for the further development of this type of rechargeable battery to market maturity. The results were published in the renowned journal Nano Energy.

wattsupwiththat.com...

iron air battery

a reply to: bobsa

Flow batteries are nothing new. Their are handicapped by low energy density though.

I think this is the publication: www.nature.com...

The claim is that the can get theoretically 1000 Wh/l . Practically they are at 225 Wh/l.

Gasoline has an energy density of 9700 Wh/l for example.

a reply to: moebius

So at best they are 9 times less efficient than gasoline.

Until that gap is overcame you can forget clean energy dependance.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: moebius

So at best they are 9 times less efficient than gasoline.

Until that gap is overcame you can forget clean energy dependance.

That is not what is being reported...

They are claiming that the fuel is more productive than current fuels like gasoline.


www.bbc.com...

a reply to: Bluntone22

Ooooor....

What if its 10 times cheaper...
No tax on it whatsoever, and govmnt set price on
hardware..... Like a 10th of a normal gasoline
engine..

See, we cant have ANYTHING until attitude changes.
Atleast anything that TRULY matters...

Its all about fast money, now, here, or better, yesterday...

Energy storage solutions that can act as both batteries and fuel generation devices (depending on the requirements of the user) could therefore revolutionize the uptake and use of renewably generated energy. Here, we present a polyoxoanion, [P2W18O62]^6−, that can be reversibly reduced and protonated by 18 electrons/H+ per anion in aqueous solution, and that can act either as a high-performance redox flow battery electrolyte (giving a practical discharged energy density of 225 Wh l^−1 with a theoretical energy density of more than 1,000 Wh l^−1), or as a mediator in an electrolytic cell for the on-demand generation of hydrogen.

nature.com (abstract) - Highly reduced and protonated aqueous solutions of [P2W18O62]^6− for on-demand hydrogen generation and energy storage.

Not sure why they say "nano" all over the place. Any electrolyte in a redox flow battery (RFB) will be "nano" the best contender being vanadium pentoxide. Energy density for VO5 is 15 - 25 W/hl, which is magnitudes higher in the new molecule (phosphorus-tungsten-oxygen, no expensive stuff there). The cool thing is it can both store energy for use in RFB and make hydrogen on demand. Might need a different membrane for hydrogen production and at the very least a capture and containment system.

Two birds, one stone. Almost too good to be true! No expensive and rare minerals that are dependent upon market prices too boot. Add this to the ammonia membrane tech out of Australia the other day and it appears alternate fuels could be arriving quicker than anticipated.

originally posted by: LightSpeedDriver
a reply to: bobsa

They're a clever bunch the Scots. Telephone, television, penicillin, laws of electrodynamics and the deep-fried mars bar, among others.

"Fill 'er up. 3 gallons of slurry please."

It must have something to do with those kilts.


Better airflow to the man's "creative center."

-dex

a reply to: howtonhawky

iron air battery

Sounds like the primary ingredients for rust.

I guess the OP was correct after all.


-dex