Antidepressants change songbirds courtship rituals: UK study

"Here is the first evidence that low concentrations of an antidepressant can disrupt the courtship of songbirds," said Kathryn Arnold, from the university's environment department.

"This is important because animals that are slow to find a mate often won't get to breed.

"With many wildlife populations in decline, we have to ask whether more could be done to remove chemical contaminants like pharmaceuticals from our sewage."

Antidepressants change songbirds courtship rituals: UK study

This got me to wondering, with rise of INCELs and ETLEs around the same time as the lower birth rate, and rise in anti-depressants found in the tap water of most cities, is this the primary culprit?


I live off the grid where we get water from the top of a mountain spring, untainted by such things, but I wonder about how all of these drugs in the tap water and rivers are impacting the human courting process as well as wildlife.

originally posted by: HunkaHunka

"Here is the first evidence that low concentrations of an antidepressant can disrupt the courtship of songbirds," said Kathryn Arnold, from the university's environment department.

"This is important because animals that are slow to find a mate often won't get to breed.

"With many wildlife populations in decline, we have to ask whether more could be done to remove chemical contaminants like pharmaceuticals from our sewage."

Antidepressants change songbirds courtship rituals: UK study

This got me to wondering, with rise of INCELs and ETLEs around the same time as the lower birth rate, and rise in anti-depressants found in the tap water of most cities, is this the primary culprit?


I live off the grid where we get water from the top of a mountain spring, untainted by such things, but I wonder about how all of these drugs in the tap water and rivers are impacting the human courting process as well as wildlife.

I believe you're conflating several things here.

The lower birthrate is due to people choosing to marry and have children later in life, not to a lack of interest in sex. This is one of the bigger factors in Japan - women getting to do things other than "stay home, have babies, keep house for men." Japan does not have as high a rate of medicated depressives as the US, yet they have a very low birthrate. This is seen in other countries.


Better access to birth control is also a factor.

Among animals, we see high birthrates in species that are adapted to co-live in spaces with humans. Gulls, pigeons are two examples, but the coyote also needs to be considered. They would have more of these drugs in their system than animals living in the wild, yet we see no particular effect there in the birthrate.

Why would coyotes have more? I know that I was positing some hypotheses... but it appears you may be making statements without citations. And for the record, I'm speaking about incel and ETLE phenomenon, not Japanese cultural changes. Do they even take ani-depressants in Japan?

a reply to: Byrd

a reply to: HunkaHunka

Antidepressants carry a warning about decreased sexual interest don't they?
I don't know. Sex releases serotonin and good endorphins. If you get depressed just have an orgasm. How easy is that?

a reply to: HunkaHunka

In the case of Humans, many antidepressants and meds actually interfere with a person's ability to think which makes them more apt to believe what someone is telling them if they are a professional. Acetylcholinesterase promotors. I do not know if that would be a contributing factor to lower birth rates, but it could possibly negatively effect the baby if the mother is doing them while pregnant. Acetylcholine is a neuro-chemical that is used to relay messages, a shortage could cause problems. It is also found in many body fluids to help with transmission of signals.

I doubt if there has even been any official testing on what it does to women as far as fertility, they avoid testing foranything they are not required to test for. If anything, I would assume that it would actually bring up promiscuity by stopping inhibition. So it would increase the birth rate in that case. Maybe women would feel like they did not want or need sex when they take antidepressants though, possibly because it dampens their nesting desires.

Keep in mind that in this study, females exposed to low doses of antidepressants were less attractive to males in general.


a reply to: rickymouse

There's probably hardly anything that the brains & biochemistry of both humans and this or that bird species would respond the same way. Probably not even for penguins and pelicans.

Do the songbirds have a problem with depression ?
Was it prescribed or street corner type ?
Should songbirds be taking human anti-depressants ?

Um, a scientific study where they give small doses of anti-depressants, as from the OP.

Male starlings sang less and were more aggressive towards females who had been given small doses of the antidepressant fluoxetine, commonly known as Prozac, researchers at the University of York found.

Not a fan of animal testing, but hey ho.

The decline in songbird populations across the world and especially in the the UK has got nothing to do with the theoretical impact of chemicals in human sewerage, but in the wholesale use of herbicides and pesticides, both of which remove the insect populations upon which birds feed, coupled with the intensive nature of farming. Half of UK farmland is sterile and supports zero life.

Not going to make this political, but if anything good comes out of Brexit it will be the withdrawal from the EU's Common Agricultural Policy which is fundamentally anti-environment.

a reply to: paraphi

Yeah monoculture farming practices are so destructive, what's really crazy there are alternatives they just aren't being pursued by the big end of business.

originally posted by: paraphi
Um, a scientific study where they give small doses of anti-depressants, as from the OP.

Male starlings sang less and were more aggressive towards females who had been given small doses of the antidepressant fluoxetine, commonly known as Prozac, researchers at the University of York found.

Not a fan of animal testing, but hey ho.

First thing that came to mind for the feathered conversation was that it probably went something like this:

"TF is wrong with you! Get away from me, lunatic!"

In other words, maybe it makes the female birds' behavior come off as entirely unattractive to the males. Excessively medicated humans aren't generally at the top of the Prime Mate Pick pile as it is to the objects that desire them, so I don't see why altered birds would be any different to them (no offense to anyone on meds, it's just an objective POV based on observation)

a reply to: Nyiah

Sounds about right.