California’s fire tornado is what climate change looks like

a reply to: FyreByrd

A System is rather like a scale. If one part becomes heavy - another becomes lighter, back and forth until balance is restored. In this case heat and cold. That balance being the set point of the system as a whole.

Ummm... no.

The climate is a massively MIMO control system, consisting of a cornucopia of various controls that interact in ways we don't fully understand... heck, I doubt we know all the controls that are operating. A control system will either react to a static condition over time, or it will run away. We don't really need to worry about the system running away, because it has sustained life for so long through so many varying conditions. The system is inherently stable.

What it can do is adjust it's target outputs, and that adjustment can either be steady or reciprocating, depending on the differential equations involved. Since we do not yet understand the mathematics that drive the system (evidenced by the failure of the climate models thus far) we have no way to predict with accuracy what the result of an action is. We can guess, but it is a guess.

It is much more complex than a scale.

Look up basic system theory before you pontificate.

Look up control theory before you do.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: FyreByrd

What is unique about this event is the winds 143 miles per hour (hurricane force) by the consumption of O2 by the fire.

I know that's what the article in the OP says, but it's wrong. The high winds were created by very strong updrafts. Hot air, not oxygen consumption.


Also, much of California's climate is classified as Mediterranean.

This is incorrect but I did have to do the homework.

According to the Koppen Climate Classification System...

www.physicalgeography.net...

... there are 5 basic climate types each with subtypes (see reference).

Climate type C - Moist Mid-latitude Climates with Mild Winters has one sub-type listed as Cs - Mediterranean. It also has two others Cfa - humid subtripical and Cfb - marine.

As you can see from the below chart:



from en.climate-data.org...

NONE OF CALIFORNIA IS CONSIDERED TO BE Cs - Mediterranean IN TERMS OF BASIC CLIMATE CATAGORY.

I though I'd lost my mind for a moment - I know California and the Mediterranean and my experience is the two climates are very different. My experience had to be checked by others and I am relieved to say that my assessment is correct.

The lesson - check things out before declaring facts.

a reply to: ketsuko

See my last posting in in this thread.

a reply to: Phage

See my last post in this thread for response.

And yes I know the Chart for California Says Mediterranean in the left verbiage column. But in fact, Cfb is a Marine climate.

a reply to: FyreByrd

And yes I know the Chart for California Says Mediterranean in the left verbiage column. But in fact, Cfb is a Marine climate.

The chart you posted for California does not list Cfb.
It lists Csa and Csb, for a number of California locations. Does it not?

Your source:

Mediterranean climates (Cs) receive rain primarily during winter season from the mid-latitude cyclone. Extreme summer aridity is caused by the sinking air of the subtropical highs and may exist for up to 5 months. Locations in North America are from Portland, Oregon to all of California.

www.physicalgeography.net...

That's weird, there's been plenty of studies that show that our fire conservation efforts are actually making wildfires worse.

Forests and undergrowth NEEDs to burn from time to time or else we get massive out-of-control fires.

a reply to: Chickensalad

Yes. Combined with extended dry seasons. The problem has gotten worse. As recognized. From May of this year:

Governor Brown Issues Executive Order to Protect Communities from Wildfire, Climate Impacts

www.gov.ca.gov...

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: FyreByrd

And yes I know the Chart for California Says Mediterranean in the left verbiage column. But in fact, Cfb is a Marine climate.

The chart you posted for California does not list Cfb.
It lists Csa and Csb, for a number of California locations. Does it not?

Your source:

Mediterranean climates (Cs) receive rain primarily during winter season from the mid-latitude cyclone. Extreme summer aridity is caused by the sinking air of the subtropical highs and may exist for up to 5 months. Locations in North America are from Portland, Oregon to all of California.

www.physicalgeography.net...

I will gladly conceded.

I will however stand by the large humidity difference in the two area. My experience is that California - most of California's territory has humidity 40 % lower then the countries bordering the Mediterranean.

California is getting more humid especially in the south but it is becoming sub-tropical rather then Mediterranean.

Thank for your patience.

I've never seen fires so intense they make trees explode. Or firefighters saying it's way beyond normal fire temps, either.


These fires aren't all normal. Some are normal, but many are totally wacko.