California’s fire tornado is what climate change looks like

From Grist: grist.org...

For weeks now, the world has been in the grips of a global heat wave — one of the most destructive and unusually hot summers in human history. And we know that a summer like this couldn’t have happened without climate change.

But perhaps the most unusual thing about the Carr Fire is the incredibly strong winds it created:

The heat from the fire was so intense that it created a towering, rotating cloud six miles high — meteorologists call them pyrocumulus, but this one effectively was a giant tornado.

The wind damage from the Carr Fire is consistent with speeds in excess of 143 mph.*

Winds this strong over such a widespread area are exceedingly rare in wildfires, though they have been documented before. Fires need oxygen to burn, and the Carr Fire created its own weather to ensure a constant oxygen supply — to devastating effect.

Welcome to the new normal.

Welcome to the new normal.

Until the next change , when we are all complaining about the record cold wave..
And the cycle of life continues.
Exactly the way the Earth has behaved since day 1

In a sense this is correct, but not the sense you think.

California is naturally a Mediterranean style climate zone with most of its moisture occurring in the fall/winter and type of scrub ecosystem based around shrubs. It's called chaparrel. The plants in those types of systems usually evolved to take advantage of fire in order to reproduce which should tell you something about what those climate zones are normally like.

When man moved out there, they liked the climate in terms of stable weather, but not in terms of the arid nature, so they started taking water anywhere they could get it. In effect, man changed the climate zone by making it less arid through irrigation, bringing water in even from as far away as the Colorado R.

Well, the green movement has been working to restore nature! And we're just seeing the change of the climate back to what it should be - one where fire is a prime mover again because it's arid, a desert.

a reply to: FyreByrd

No pictures?



So a hot summer is all it takes for something to become a norm?

You know the climate changes, as a constant, right?

a reply to: FyreByrd

How Regulations Made California's Fires Worse
www.americanthinker.com...

Too bad that "flaming hurricane" the environMENTALists flamed the board about here for months about, during the BP oil disaster, never came about. That would have been hawt. Oh yeah, the story went that a gazillion tons of frozen methane under teh gulf seabed was about to erupt out into the atmosphere while the hurriane was going to nail that area, and then it was going to ignite the atmosphere in FIRE. During that, the seabed shifting so sudden and dramatically was going to cause tidal waves. And that was only the kick ass part of how the oil gusher itself was an assured Extinction Level Event (ELE).

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

My favorite part was the Nostradamus tie in with Ray Mabus.

I find it interesting that when unusualy cool/cold weather happens, and people chirp about "what happened to global warming?", the usual ATS suspects come on here to lecture us about the difference between weather events and the climate.

But...if we have unusually hot weather at any point - well game set and match for climate change!

If you think there are too many humans moving water around. Maybe CA should build a wall and keep the invasive species from south of the boarder out of their pressous environment.

Nothing is naturally any environment, since the environment is constantly changing. Cali has glaciers and they used to have more.

a reply to: FyreByrd

sigh, yes..it is terrible, in fact Im moving back there...South Oregon...do you think its carbon? Why are you over using a computer, a car, buying store bought foods etc...you arent doing any more than anyone else, but I can assure you I am, my perma culture farming, soon to be wild crafting family in Oregon.

The Sahara and all of Eastern Europe / medditerranian used to be lush, we have found out that the Mayans disappeared because of climate too...its soil, trees and concrete, not politics, that destroys our equilibrium.

The planet has cycles, and we try to take advantage time and time again, yet you want to waste the time required to cast an ignorant finger at any other?

Everything you do, day to day is as meaningfully bad as anyone you choose to humble with this silly ass post.

Fire tornados are actually not rare. I doubt if climate change is causing those changes. Carelessness and altering the ecosystem by draining too much water is increasing the risk of fires there. Ecosystems are pretty touchy.

Yes, we are messing things up ecologically, we should have listened to the tree huggers forty years ago. We should not be fracking the hell out of the USA either, that releases a lot of greenhouse gasses. I am also pretty sure that altering the way the energy flows through the crust by fracking and mining is not doing any good, I have read about the effects of altering ground currents on weather patterns, not directly to fracking, but to mining and earth quake activity.

Why is there no middle ground on this topic?

It's always extreme denial or hardcore blaming of the world's change on humans.

The climate is changing, it's what it does. Yet some of it is created by us. Like the great US dust bowl of the 1930's. A man made problem due to new (at the time) agricultural practices, it effected 5 US states and had devastating effects, if that's not man made climate change then I don't know what is... Plenty more examples world wide.

Yeah the climate changes naturally, it balances itself out and one event can have knock on effects that can be far reaching, to deny humans can have any weight on these scales is somewhat idiotic though since we have plenty of examples of human activity affecting the climate.

Smog anyone? How about a little acid rain? The atmosphere affects the biosphere, the same is true in reverse. We affect them both.

Jumping up and down on the scales whilst screaming bs achieves nothing.

a reply to: ketsuko

The natives of the region burned out underbrush annually as well. It was common practice for hundreds or thousands of years and effectively shaped the ecosystems. The past 150 years have probably been quite a shock to the region.

a reply to: rickymouse

We certainly are messing things up. On the other side of the country, Florida had another record setting year of red tide algae blooms and the associated millions of dead sea creatures are lining nearly the entire damn states beaches.

And why? Because they decided to completely alter the everglades and # up the natural routes for the water to drain back out to sea. They did this so the god damned sugar industry has enough pristine earth to farm their poison on. Yummy nitrogen phosphorus fertilizer water everywhere Yay! Because we all know Americans need nothing more than to contiue consuming ungodly amounts of sugar as it slowly kills us all.

Not to mention ruining the ecosystem so all the rich bastard elites can have extra land to develop real estate on. Land that was never meant to have millions of people living on it in giant highrise condos on rent.

But 'muh capitalism!'

originally posted by: Lightdhype
a reply to: rickymouse

We certainly are messing things up. On the other side of the country, Florida had another record setting year of red tide algae blooms and the associated millions of dead sea creatures are lining nearly the entire damn states beaches.

And why? Because they decided to completely alter the everglades and # up the natural routes for the water to drain back out to sea. They did this so the god damned sugar industry has enough pristine earth to farm their poison on. Yummy nitrogen phosphorus fertilizer water everywhere Yay! Because we all know Americans need nothing more than to contiue consuming ungodly amounts of sugar as it slowly kills us all.

Not to mention ruining the ecosystem so all the rich bastard elites can have extra land to develop real estate on. Land that was never meant to have millions of people living on it in giant highrise condos on rent.

But 'muh capitalism!'

I agree, we are definitely letting things get screwed up. But the climate change people will blame this all on carbon. That is the biggest reason I do not support climate change or global warming. The earth can repair itself if it's ecosystem is healthy, we are messing up the ecosystem pretty badly.

originally posted by: ketsuko
In a sense this is correct, but not the sense you think.

California is naturally a Mediterranean style climate zone with most of its moisture occurring in the fall/winter and type of scrub ecosystem based around shrubs. It's called chaparrel. The plants in those types of systems usually evolved to take advantage of fire in order to reproduce which should tell you something about what those climate zones are normally like.

When man moved out there, they liked the climate in terms of stable weather, but not in terms of the arid nature, so they started taking water anywhere they could get it. In effect, man changed the climate zone by making it less arid through irrigation, bringing water in even from as far away as the Colorado R.

Well, the green movement has been working to restore nature! And we're just seeing the change of the climate back to what it should be - one where fire is a prime mover again because it's arid, a desert.

Like the forest fires - if nature was allowed to take its course, then there would be isolated patches of trees separate from each other. If there was a drought and a patch of trees got hit by lightning or a fire, then that patch would burn out and nothing else. Along come right-on loons who think forest fires are bad and demand every single fire is put out by firefighters, oppose the felling of trees to make firebreaks or even clearing of deadwood around their forest homes. Then they demand every resource is used to stop their homes from burning up.

a reply to: FyreByrd

I recall the summer of 1988 being the hottest I have witnessed. Did a quick search and it was the hottest based on number of days over 90 degrees.

About your forest though... an old decaying forest (and decay in general) emits massive amounts of co2.

"The researchers found that any forest that is cut and allowed to regrow naturally in Latin America will double its carbon storage capacity within 20 years and increase that storage by 120 percent in 40 years

www.climatecentral.org... ous-amounts-carbon-20348

So if you want to cut co2 emissions then make room for second-growth forests.

Yes, the fire tornadoes are our fault. It's our fault we placed more tinder (aka houses and buildings) in an area where wildfires are a yearly occurrence. It is our fault we irrigated the area to grow more trees and shrubs that can burn.

A fire tornado is simply a tornadic event that is caused by a sudden massive heating of a column of air, causing it to rise rapidly and spin. That extra heat comes from the extra stuff there is to burn. Now, considering that California has successfully changed their own climate so wildfires are more common and destructive, would someone explain to me again why I should listen to anyone from there telling me how we need to take actions to prevent what they did and continue to do?

TheRedneck

This whole climate debate is irritating, here in oz we are having an unusually warm winter, yet American media have stories of record cold here on-the- east coast, we had Like 2 or 3 days of a cold Antarctic blast, the rest of the time it's warm enough for swimming, I took my boat out yesterday and the boy and I ended up having a big swim the temp was about 25 degrees Celsius ,water was cold because of the currents but still nice.

a reply to: Lightdhype

Doesnt that stuff you discussed about florida tie into the dead-zone which is based upon how much fresh water pours into the ocean? I'm no expert but that was always my understanding.