Military recruitment in schools

Originally posted by mwm1331
Where the hell else are they going to go? The military needs to recruit young soldiers, the only place they can be guaranteed to be able to reach America's at is the school system.

Of course, where else are they going to find young Americans that do not know the intricacies of what they are signing up for?

The reason they are failing to recruit elsewhere is because people would most likely answer with something like "What the hell? I don’t want to be a minion and possibly die for some retarded reason, call me when we are actually being attacked."

Glad they don’t have this kind of recruiting where I live (well I didn’t see any at the schools I went too).

Actually johnny it simple effeciency, They can reach more youths at school than anywhere else, thus a small number of recruiters can do the work of many using a less effecient strategy.

Originally posted by mwm1331
Actually johnny it simple effeciency, They can reach more youths at school than anywhere else, thus a small number of recruiters can do the work of many using a less effecient strategy.

Yeah, but do these youngths actually know what their getting into?
I mean come on, tell me do these kids know what wars do?
I sure didnt during my younger school years and we had military guys come like once and most people didnt know what the army or the srvices was like BUT still wanted to sign up.

Do they have an accurate picture of college before they go?
Or what its like to work and provide for a family?
Or to be a parent?

Originally posted by mwm1331
Do they have an accurate picture of college before they go?
Or what its like to work and provide for a family?
Or to be a parent?

No most probably no, BUT its a bit less dangerous joining the services.
They try and give you a good idea of what these are like, you cant show someone what its like to go to work, but you can show people the cost of wars.

Devilwasp anyone who doesnt know war is hell and can kill you is too stupid to understand the explanation.

Originally posted by devilwasp
Firstly , there are many left wing soldiers and many right wing.

Sure there are. The statement, however, was directed at those liberals who oppose, or whine, about federal recruitment in institutions the federal government has made a financial investment in. Do you really need it spelled out to you? No one said there were no left wing soldiers.

Just FWI, however, there are far fewer left wing soldiers in the American military, so your statement that there are "many left wing soldiers" can legitimately be labeled as misleading because the percentage of persons subscribing to left wing ideology in the American military is far less then the percentage of persons subscribing to left wing ideology in the greater American population.

Secondly why should the federal gov , if it gives any funding, be allowed to show one side to an arguement?

Because as per the federal government there is only one side to the argument and that side is theirs. You expect them to say "Yeah, we think we are right, however, you must understand that there is a distinct possibility that we are wrong and therefore criminally responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocents." Get real.

Cause They want more soldiers, what for? To wage war.

What else do you do with soldiers?

Simple, name one war where america has went on the defensive in the last 50 years.
War on terror was a simple attack and counter attack nothing mroe.
I didnt see any US battle groups getting pulled back from global positions.

That has nothing to do with school recruiting. Now you are just whining.

Originally posted by mwm1331
Devilwasp anyone who doesnt know war is hell and can kill you is too stupid to understand the explanation.

Most people dont see all the horrors of war, we have seen on TV and on here a small percentage.
Hell i tried talking to people here about the services, only one guy. ONE GUY, knew that war was hell.
Most people think the worst case scenario is getting shot, there are far worse scenarios.

Originally posted by Romeo
lol. you don't think cutting off of a schools federal funding if they don't comply is a big issue? Its blackmail. I find the loud support fascinating.

[edit on 21-2-2005 by Romeo]

That is exactly what the government should do... stop federal funding. Anymore, schools are not for education. It's for behavior modification and social engeering geared to make kids hate anything that is not in step with
with a socialist agenda.

Over half my property taxes go to the schools in this county. I have never had any kids in any local schools. A portion of my electric bill goes to schools. When I re-new my car tags a portion of that money goes to schools.

Federal dollars pour into education and yet they need more and more money. Do a Google on "Budget of the US". It's frighting how much money is allocated for schools and the results are children writing "hate" letters to American soldiers.

The NEA is a socialist organization and should be disbanded along with the ACLU.

Chief

Originally posted by devilwasp
Most people dont see all the horrors of war, we have seen on TV and on here a small percentage.
Hell i tried talking to people here about the services, only one guy. ONE GUY, knew that war was hell.
Most people think the worst case scenario is getting shot, there are far worse scenarios.

Devilwasp, there is no way for you to have an understanding of what combat is like, just as there is no way for me to have an understanding of what death is like. If you think you have a better understanding than any other high school kid out there, you are wrong. It is something you must experiencein order to understand. Just like everyone your age, however, you think you know more than your peers. You are wrong to think that.

There is no way to prepare a person for the realities of combat, for the experience of a war zone. The federal government is under no obligation to try, either. So long as we have wars, soldiers will be subjected the realities of those wars. If you don’t like that, grow up to be a politician and try to keep your nation out of wars, that’s about all you can do.

Originally posted by cavscout
Devilwasp, there is no way for you to have an understanding of what combat is like, just as there is no way for me to have an understanding of what death is like. If you think you have a better understanding than any other high school kid out there, you are wrong. It is something you must experiencein order to understand. Just like everyone your age, however, you think you know more than your peers. You are wrong to think that.

I know more in some area's just as they know more than me in other but I certanly do not in the field of horors.

I know what your saying cav and I'm trying to say along the same lines to.

There is no way to prepare a person for the realities of combat, for the experience of a war zone. The federal government is under no obligation to try, either. So long as we have wars, soldiers will be subjected the realities of those wars. If you don’t like that, grow up to be a politician and try to keep your nation out of wars, that’s about all you can do.

Yeah, there is no real way to do so I agree, I'm in no way disbuteing that what I'm saying is many kids dont know the simplest dangers of the military.
Hell I dont probably know the simplest dangers.
I dont like wars and really wish we didnt have to send people like you to fight in them, but politicions are the ones that send people like you to war, do I want to do that? No

Isn't the Major Issue that they are complaining about isn't the recruiters in the school as much as it is they are forced to give out privacy information to the recruiters or lose their funding. They aren't forced to give out privacy information to recieve any state or local funding. It is the violation of these underage childrens rights to privacy that is the issue. Not whether or not the recruiter is in the school.


Phae

Originally posted by Romeo
lol. you don't think cutting off of a schools federal funding if they don't comply is a big issue? Its blackmail. I find the loud support fascinating.

[edit on 21-2-2005 by Romeo]

Say Microsoft is responsible for 7% of the funding for Liberal State U. One day the folks at LSU decide they don't like Microsoft's corporate policy on [whatever] and ban their recruiters from campus. Wouldn't Microsoft be fully justified if they were to decide to immediatly withdraw all funding from LSU? It's not blackmail at all!

It is nothing short of ridiculous to accept money from the US govt to educate students and then ban the recruitment of those same students into the organization that protects, defends, and supports the US govt.

Why shouldn't the US government (and the military which protects the rights of all Americans) have the same kind of access that every other employer has? What's next, banning government defense contractors from recruiting? What about the Federal Reserve Bank - they are an integral part of the US govt too? That slippery slope argument cuts both ways.

What I find fascinating is how so many liberals go freaking nuts if they think that any of their rights (real or merely perceived) are being infringed upon, but are always the first in line to demand that someone else's rights free speech rights be revoked if their message and/or agenda is contrary (i.e. offensive) to their own.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Just to explain further:
Here is the average breakdown:

State: 44+/-%
Local: 48+/-%
Federal: 7+/-%
*Source is from, Donald Kauchak and Paul Eggen, Intro to Teaching: Becoming a Professional, 2nd ed. (New Jersey: Pearson Education, 2005)

seekerof

[edit on 21-2-2005 by Seekerof]

I have to admit that I'm a bit surprised by these statistics. Do the numbers include tuition funds derived from federally subsidized student loan programs? I suspect not.

ChemicalLaser:

Do the numbers include tuition funds derived from federally subsidized student loan programs? I suspect not.

Those numbers are from public schools K1-K12, not colleges or universities, nor private schools K1-K12.



seekerof

Who honestly cares if the military comes to talk in the classrooms? The government pays for public schools anyway so I think that they have the right to put some recruiters in the classrooms.

I dont agree with recruiters in schools.
You know its strange my HighSchool used to have recruiters outside the lunch room every few days, and right around the time the No child act was started, they stopped showing up.

So far as I know, No Child Left Behind has nothing to do with military recruiting efforts. The Solomon Act of 1995 states that if a public education institution were to withhold information from the government in effect to stifle recruiting efforts, and has provided said same information to another vendor, ie. Josten's (who manufacture class rings) for example, they may be in jeopardy of losing federal funding.

A possible reason why recruiters stopped showing up so much around NCLB could be that around that time Army recruiters began crossing over from uniformed recruiters to civilians, who, in my opinion, don't know what they're doing.

Of course, I am one of them, but then I was also in the Army for a good amount of time, and know plenty of recruiters who did their jobs in uniform.

To my understanding, a school is legally able to tell us that we cannot hold a function, or show up at lunch, or give class presentations, but they cannot prevent us from our recruiting efforts outside the school, and must provide us contact information by law.

The bottom line for me, as a recruiter is this: I don't want anyone in my Army that does not want to be there. I can offer them cash bonuses, I can offer them 70K for college, and I can hook them up with an Airborne Ranger contract. I can even put them into Special Forces right off the street. But I cannot, and will not put anyone in the Army that does not make the choice for themselves. It just isn't worth it. It's not worth it to the individual, and it certainly isn't worth it to their buddy who did volunteer of his/her own volition.

The Army is not for everyone, and it's a damn good thing that we live in a country where people can make the choice for themselves rather than be conscripted. Conscriped armies are a perscription for dangerous, undisciplined forces many of which I was able to observe and train with personally. I'm proud to seek out and find those brave young ones who are WILLING to take on these risks and challenges for themselves and the rest of us.