US attack on Iran?

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Scrutinizing

originally posted by: daveinats
Iran was once out 'sweetheart'...but remember Iran 'students' invaded the US Embassy...remember 444 days? Speaking of students, how many college students had training to operate crypto machines? No, the Ayatollah and his minions did it with Soviet assistance.

This is like blowing smoke, though. The elected government of Mossadegh was overthrown by a CIA coup that put the Shah in power, which maybe you'd call American assistance? You think? This is where Iran's hate affair with the U.S. began. While Khomeini was evil, the Shah was also a very brutal dictatorship. A person could vanish for saying they didn't like the Shah. He ran his Savak secret police, with America's blessing, that was as damned evil as Stalin's Cheka. So, the question is where your moral high ground comes from, and why this notion that Russia, doing the sorts of things America does, all the time, is the boogeyman?

What's your patriotism may be somebody else's Ugly American, because you're steeped in ridiculous hypocrisy, "Do as I say, not as I do." Hyprocrites aren't going to win a Good Housekeeping Seal anytime soon, nor be taken seriously, that is, all that smoke blowing.

By the way, if you think the Shah was a sweetheart, that must be psycho luv. You need to get some whips and chains and get a room.

You have a very warped view of history and seem to leave out alot of details. First the only reason the shah was supported was because they wanted a radar installation in Iran. The Shah overthrow was started by communists controlled by the soviet Union. The shah was never truly allied with the west as he was the one who appointed Mossadegh as prime minister. What got them both in trouble was the idea if nationalizing British oil industry in Iran.

The British government spent huge sums if money trying to turn Iran into a saudi arabia. They brought in drilling experts equipment set up training and built infrastructure such as roads, schools,power plants etc.

This is why they British didn't like the idea of losing all their stuff by having the shahs government take over the oil industry. Shah knew this is exactly what he wanted and had a scape goat to pin it on in Mossadegh. This move effectively looses the shah most of his good will with the west. And one of the reasons his regime falls to communists

As an Iranian who probably knows a little bit about his own country's history, i must tell you that you're completely wrong.

Iran was not just a potential "radar station" for US. US didn't spend billions upon billions of dollars for a single radar station on Iranian soil. US didn't overthrow mossadegh and later install a brutal dictator for a radar station. US didn't control every bit of Iranian imperial puppet regime for a simple radar station.

Mossadegh was not "APPOINTED" by shah, he was elected. you don't know Iranian history, before this revolution we had other ones as well, the 1979 was the last one which succeeded in overthrowing mohammad reza.

Iran had another shah named Reza shah, you can google what happened to that one, it will probably give you an idea of what was going on and how much US wanted these brutal killers to be in power.

this is not for a radar station

originally posted by: haman10
As an Iranian who probably knows a little bit about his own country's history, i must tell you that you're completely wrong.

Iran was not just a potential "radar station" for US. US didn't spend billions upon billions of dollars for a single radar station on Iranian soil. US didn't overthrow mossadegh and later install a brutal dictator for a radar station. US didn't control every bit of Iranian imperial puppet regime for a simple radar station.

True. The CIA operated stations even AFTER the revolution.

Mossadegh was not "APPOINTED" by shah, he was elected. you don't know Iranian history, before this revolution we had other ones as well, the 1979 was the last one which succeeded in overthrowing mohammad reza.

Operation Ajax was undertaken at the behest of the British who wanted to preserve their generous oil rights and opposed Mossadegh's nationalization of the same. We have spend trillions trying to install a democracy int he Middle East, and yet overthrew the first one we ran into and installed an absolute monarch in his place.

Its a shame people do not understand the basic history of how we got to where we are.

a reply to: pteridine

I call out this posting as B.S. Once a Totalitarian leader like Hitler starts down the road of conquests, there's no turning him back. My dad was drafted in 1940, for that one year peacetime draft, and by late in 1945, he was guarding a trainload of SS soldats going to the Nuremberg War Trials. He told me that Hitler had created a beast, and then was carried off on it's horns. Those Mullahs and Ayatollah's have created just such a beast, and will soon be carried away, just like Hitler. The German General Staff planned a war for 1946, but Hitler had to jump the gun, in 1939. So by the time the German MIC had fully ramped up, they were being bombed day and night, and faced with opposing armies on both their Western and Eastern Fronts.

If the present Religious Extremists can't stay on the offensive, someone else in Persia will deep six them and their Islamic Republic. Our increasing sanctions will hasten their "Night of the Long Knives". It will be interesting to see, who cuts and runs off, first.

this has been in planning for some time.....2010-2017 and current training OPS are probably classified.... Here's a first hand account....

As a former intelligence operative in the US military i have been exposed to a few things of classified nature,

but when i saw a map of this imaginary country for the first time the map was a direct copy of the countries and borders of the middle east and our target country was a direct replica of Iran the roads cities terrain everything they didn't even try to hide

it just so happened that not only did the enemy reside in a country oddly similar to Iran the enemy also used to same weapons systems tactics training methods and equipment as Iran then they brought the rest of the unit in on the war games towards the end of 2013 Now our tankers and infantry men were training to fight this imaginary enemy in our simulators then the feeling in my stomach turned from a hunch to a cold realization of truth We are being prepared to fight IRAN

we were using real imagery real satellite data real statistics real data the entire military has seen a small shift from training to fight guerrilla warfare and low level insurgents to training to fight conventional warfare tank on tank action airstrikes on populated areas ground troops versus ground troops

the full read is worth it any one know what the training OP was labeled??

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: haman10

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Scrutinizing

originally posted by: daveinats
Iran was once out 'sweetheart'...but remember Iran 'students' invaded the US Embassy...remember 444 days? Speaking of students, how many college students had training to operate crypto machines? No, the Ayatollah and his minions did it with Soviet assistance.

This is like blowing smoke, though. The elected government of Mossadegh was overthrown by a CIA coup that put the Shah in power, which maybe you'd call American assistance? You think? This is where Iran's hate affair with the U.S. began. While Khomeini was evil, the Shah was also a very brutal dictatorship. A person could vanish for saying they didn't like the Shah. He ran his Savak secret police, with America's blessing, that was as damned evil as Stalin's Cheka. So, the question is where your moral high ground comes from, and why this notion that Russia, doing the sorts of things America does, all the time, is the boogeyman?

What's your patriotism may be somebody else's Ugly American, because you're steeped in ridiculous hypocrisy, "Do as I say, not as I do." Hyprocrites aren't going to win a Good Housekeeping Seal anytime soon, nor be taken seriously, that is, all that smoke blowing.

By the way, if you think the Shah was a sweetheart, that must be psycho luv. You need to get some whips and chains and get a room.

You have a very warped view of history and seem to leave out alot of details. First the only reason the shah was supported was because they wanted a radar installation in Iran. The Shah overthrow was started by communists controlled by the soviet Union. The shah was never truly allied with the west as he was the one who appointed Mossadegh as prime minister. What got them both in trouble was the idea if nationalizing British oil industry in Iran.

The British government spent huge sums if money trying to turn Iran into a saudi arabia. They brought in drilling experts equipment set up training and built infrastructure such as roads, schools,power plants etc.

This is why they British didn't like the idea of losing all their stuff by having the shahs government take over the oil industry. Shah knew this is exactly what he wanted and had a scape goat to pin it on in Mossadegh. This move effectively looses the shah most of his good will with the west. And one of the reasons his regime falls to communists

As an Iranian who probably knows a little bit about his own country's history, i must tell you that you're completely wrong.

Iran was not just a potential "radar station" for US. US didn't spend billions upon billions of dollars for a single radar station on Iranian soil. US didn't overthrow mossadegh and later install a brutal dictator for a radar station. US didn't control every bit of Iranian imperial puppet regime for a simple radar station.

Mossadegh was not "APPOINTED" by shah, he was elected. you don't know Iranian history, before this revolution we had other ones as well, the 1979 was the last one which succeeded in overthrowing mohammad reza.

Iran had another shah named Reza shah, you can google what happened to that one, it will probably give you an idea of what was going on and how much US wanted these brutal killers to be in power.

this is not for a radar station

Actually, you're BOTH WRONG (and as an American I'm saddened to have to inform an Iranian of his own history)!

The reign of the "King of all Kings" the "Shah of Iran", Mohammad Reza Pahlavi didn't begin with Nixon or anyone after him. He came to power in Iran decades before in 1941. You should know; the Iranian people elected and LOVED him!

He was the son of Reza Shah (his father), the direct descendant of the family rule before him. It was a monarchy, like it or not.

Mohammad Reza Shah was not a product of the United States. He may have aligned with the US in his later years to defend Iran (a mutual benefit during the late 70's and 80's), but do not mistake for one moment that he was not one of your own. He had been in power LONG before the US got involved.

In the 70's the "Shah" got into a position of reverse leverage where the US needed him more than he needed them, but he was never a true ally of the US.

Shame you wouldn't know this, OR are you just trying to spin history....like so many others these days?

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Are you for real????? en.wikipedia.org...

Kermit Roosevelt, the CIA and the Brits

foreignpolicy.com...

Gee, overthrow a country's government and subject its people to decades of oppression, and suddenly you're the bad guy.

a reply to: haman10
Yes sorry I did mean Arab Spring. My phone has a sensitive key pad 😊 Thank you for your perspective. Mine is that the Deep State controls things and Trump is upsetting that little apple cart.

originally posted by: carpooler
a reply to: pteridine

I call out this posting as B.S. Once a Totalitarian leader like Hitler starts down the road of conquests, there's no turning him back. My dad was drafted in 1940, for that one year peacetime draft, and by late in 1945, he was guarding a trainload of SS soldats going to the Nuremberg War Trials. He told me that Hitler had created a beast, and then was carried off on it's horns. Those Mullahs and Ayatollah's have created just such a beast, and will soon be carried away, just like Hitler. The German General Staff planned a war for 1946, but Hitler had to jump the gun, in 1939. So by the time the German MIC had fully ramped up, they were being bombed day and night, and faced with opposing armies on both their Western and Eastern Fronts.

If the present Religious Extremists can't stay on the offensive, someone else in Persia will deep six them and their Islamic Republic. Our increasing sanctions will hasten their "Night of the Long Knives". It will be interesting to see, who cuts and runs off, first.

What you meant to say was that your opinion differs from mine. Calling out posts as BS when you disagree with them and then only providing a different opinion is not a good way to make [non] arguments.

originally posted by: Majic
Gee, overthrow a country's government and subject its people to decades of oppression, and suddenly you're the bad guy.

People over there just can't take a joke. Remember, we're that shining light on the hill, and George Washington chopped down the cherry tree, and didn't lie about it.

friendlydictators.blogspot.com...

You know what's sad and very true? Addicts or mentally ill people, throw in deceptive people, fill in the blank, will never change, until they admit they have a problem. In theological terms, one has to repent, for a reason. Isn't that so? What's amazing, as you see in this thread, some resort to revisionist history, because they know the truth is really, really ugly, and prefer to sweep it under the rug. That's why history is such a tragic mess. Fact is, mankind repeats his "mistakes" like clockwork, when they say a monkey learns the second time.

Post WW2 Iran made the global stage in 1953 with TPAJAX.
Recent stories have been saying that Irans Navy and the Republican Guard are having a military exercise.
Possibly shut down the Strait of Hormuz which would effectively shut off the world Middle East oil supply.

a reply to: FredT

On 28 April 1951, the Shah appointed Mossadegh as Prime Minister after the Majlis (Parliament of Iran) nominated Mosaddegh by a vote of 79–12. It was still the shah's decision on who became prime minister.

The Shah wanted him because he had said he was going to nationalize the oil industry which benefits the shah. This is also the reason they west allowed the communist party to overthrow him. Iran is trying to rewrite history to make claims that are just fantasy.

In 1949 an assassination attempt on the shah makes him decide to start consolidating power. So he had the ability to under the constitution to appoint senators. So he ends up putting people who would be loyal to the crown. If the shah had wanted to stop the nomination he had the ability but of course, he didn't because he wanted the power over the oil industry. What he didn't count on was how much of a pain in the neck Mossadegh was going to be as he saw the shah was a usurper to the throne. His greed actually leads to his downfall no surprise happens a lot in history.

A coup was planed when with Mossadegh's decree to dissolve Parliament and basically take over as shah. He believed that his family was the rightful heirs to the throne. Do not think he was trying to bring democracy to Iran that is fiction that was created to rationalize the overthrow of the shah by communist forces.

originally posted by: intrepid
I'm sure Iran isn't going to attack Israel. That's the propaganda sown here. OP does the "Death to Israel" propaganda work there?

I'm pretty sure Iran didn't send 100,000 rockets to Hezbollah just for a New Years Eve show.

The slogan isn't propaganda to them, it's an inspirational cry.

originally posted by: Cauliflower
Post WW2 Iran made the global stage in 1953 with TPAJAX.
Recent stories have been saying that Irans Navy and the Republican Guard are having a military exercise.
Possibly shut down the Strait of Hormuz which would effectively shut off the world Middle East oil supply.

That would be a foolish decision by the Leaders of Iran. A fatal miscalculation. A response would be guaranteed.

a reply to: intrepid

Very well laid out point -

1979. The US is very good at holding a grudge. See Cuba.

This is a minor blimp in the scheme of things; of more concern
Giulianis speech to "friends of Iran speech"

* Friends " = previously a terrorist organization ( PMOI/MEK )




General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned - Seven Countries In Five Years

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Are you using a 17-year-old interview trying to say we would take out these countries in 5 years? it's obvious now that he was wrong. What he was talking about is most likely battle plans they make in case the need arises to protect national security. Would it surprise you to know the US made plans to invade Canada and remove the British from North America? If they got Iraq right shows the war planners were right to include it on the list not that the list caused it to be attacked.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Ps Every military in the world has plans for potential scenarios hopefully these plans are not needed but they are there.

originally posted by: haman10
We had 2 separate threads regarding this issue recently, which i just came across:

thread 1 and thread 2

In both of those threads what i saw really amazed me: several people throwing tantrums and chest bumping each other while some few tried reasoning. look guys, you have NOT seen war. i have, i live in a country who fell victim of 8 years of devastating war with saddam hossein who was United State's sweetheart at the time. i was born to chaos and massacre. War is inhumane, war is the dark side of humanity. you have no idea what war is, the overwhelming majority of you are thankfully living in peace and quiet.
when you bump each other's chests about war, you're actually celebrating other people's death. and war is not one-sided. you kill and you get killed, that's why a wise man once said: "think more and talk less".

The situation is very dire and ALL of us most be worried, not just me as an Iranian. there is an economic war going on against Iran by the US Trump regime and nowadays 1 USD = 100,000 Iranian rial which indicated a very very bad situation for a once glowing Iranian economy. there is so much Iran can take and that is worrying. Contrary to what was said in those threads, Iran is not threatening US at all. in fact she is calling for peace and the words of Iranian president was taken out of contest, DELIBERATELY, by the OP in one of those threads.

The Iranian president said and i quote: "Peace with Iran is the mother of all Peace and war with Iran is the mother of all wars" and he urged the US president to take the former approach rather than the later one. You should not fall victim to this childish propaganda as this site's main objective is this very issue if i'm not mistaken

Some ppl said that Iranian president does not represent Iranian people. ok thus we should go to war? what if we don't want your liberating? trust me no one needs US interference and liberation. we do NOT want it, please stick to your own problems and let us solve our own. if Rouhani is not elected by people, so is Trump.

I don't think US-Iran war will be like US-Iraq or US-Afghanistan war and the overwhelming majority of military and political analysts and professionals agree with this. indeed, war with Iran will be the mother of all wars, let us prevent it. let us stick to our own lives and not meddle in each other's affairs, lets stop killing.

How many people here actually think this war will be a good idea and whats their reason? what has Iran ever done to you?

As an Iranian, raised outside Iran, I have seen the people try and fight for resistance. With the Revolutionary Guards, it is impossible to fight against the government. The people need some action from Trump before they can stand up to the tyrants. If POTUS can keep his word and help the Iranian people. We might finally see some peace.

originally posted by: D4rkL0rdAs an Iranian, raised outside Iran, I have seen the people try and fight for resistance. With the Revolutionary Guards, it is impossible to fight against the government. The people need some action from Trump before they can stand up to the tyrants. If POTUS can keep his word and help the Iranian people. We might finally see some peace.

Thanks for the insight D4rkL0rd getting the feel for what can be done for your people. The way you describe things is so similar to the German people and their one time masters the Nazis. Both Mullahs and B=Nazis came to power at a time of turmoil and managed to get their hands on power when normally it would never have happened. The world should have gone in much earlier than the late thirties to try and save the German people from the Nazis, it might have saved millions of them and millions outside too. If the only way to help Iranians today is get pro-active then the West needs to completely sanction the regime but will that be enough to force change? It might even galvanize the middle gound to support the Mullahs, maybe it's time to take the bull by the horns and take out the regime in another manner?

originally posted by: Cassi3l
a reply to: haman10

How many people here actually think this war will be a good idea

People here ?
None
Amongst the sane, that is

"People" at the White House
at least one

As nut-balls as he is

Perhaps he just knows saber rattling for what it is. We are still paying for the intrigues of the CFR and Kissinger and Carter etc

a reply to: FredT

Okay. I have no argument/dispute with that. (i.e. your links) (well, other than one of them being wikipedia, but in principle).

So, I guess I'm not clear on what your point is (?)