In Defense of The U.S.A.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Words

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Words

Yes. I understood the words you wrote already the first time you wrote them. Now, I'm asking you to elaborate with some facts to support that supposition you just claimed. Just saying "Nope you are wrong" doesn't magically make it so. Welfare is a type of Socialism so yes Socialism has been implemented in our country. Of course, the country isn't 100% Socialist, but to say that it wasn't implemented in the country is the height of history revisionism and nonsense.

You understood the words yet you misrepresented them, pretending I was talking about a social safety net, when I clearly said socialism.

Welfare is not a type of socialism. You ask me to elaborate with facts, yet you have shown none.

Ok so I'm going to just stop here. You clearly see Socialism as a partisan buzzword and don't understand what it is or represents. Furthermore, your argument is semantics compared to my original point. Regardless if you want to call those policies Socialist or not (they were), they are still the height of liberal policies and the era in question was an era of increased liberalism in our country.

I wouldn't get too upset at him.

He thinks the US is the last vestige of freedom.

List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia. Free indeed!

originally posted by: Words

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Words

I did back up my points. You just argued by saying, "nope you are wrong". I'm not playing that playground tit-for-tat so I said I'm done.

The simple fact is that welfare is Socialism. As I said already, Socialism isn't 100% implemented in the country, but Socialist policies have. So the fact you are arguing this point is just a semantics one. It doesn't refute anything I said.

That’s not a fact. That’s a lie. By any standard definition of socialism, no socialism has been implemented in the United States.

History of the socialist movement in the United States - Wikipedia

Although the US is largely capitalist, here's some socialist schemes:

- public K-12 education, which functions alongside charter schools and private K-12s
- public libraries, which function very well in an age of bookstores
- public police forces, which work alongside private detectives and private security firms
- public infrastructure like roads, bridges, water and sewer systems, making modern life as comfort-driven as it is today
- public parks, with green spaces and recreation space for all
- municipal power is in many towns
- Social Security
- Medicare.

The vast majority of the USA occupies that 60 percent of the middle ground. It often seems worse than it is because extreme views are what get hits, likes, and the vast majority of the press coverage by either side.

More to the point, the US has the longest present form of government on the planet, has a very robust constitution, and even the present POTUS will not be able to take that down. Its going to be an ugly few years but as always the US will get through it and move on.

a reply to: chr0naut

Very well put and to the point. Its sort of a hybrid Capitalist/socialist society that swings one way or the other depending on the elected officials and the like but stays somewhat close to the core

You are making the same mistake that many people make by assuming that all Americans are alike.

A long time ago, I was flying for business and got trapped by a loud mouthed European who was telling me all the things that are wrong with Americans. I tried to be polite for as long as possible. Finally, I let him know that he was full of kaka.

His assumption that all Americans were similar must have come for some Euro trash TV that gives a very shallow impression of us. He assumed that we all drove Cadillacs and raised cows on our thousand acre estates was just plane silly.

Americans come in all shapes and sizes, politics from the far left to the far right. If you get a room full of Americans together, you'll get a pretty good range of ideas on anything you'd like to discuss.

One of the few things that we would probably agree on is your right to express your opinion even if it is simplistic.

Good luck in your life and try to imagine that the US has quite a diverse population in just about any subject you wish to discuss.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
A long time ago I wrote about how many nations view the United States as quite a backwards place with regards to how conservative you guys are and your very strict adherence to principles such as freedom of speech and freedom to acquire and own weapons such as guns.

That must be why the U.S. is the leading powerhouse of innovation and technological development.

Lets not forget how most Americans are intolerant and racist, that must be why they are ranked highest on the list of development aid country donors. Those filthy capitalist pigs clearly don't care about anyone besides themselves, all of their success comes down to their lack of remorse when they screw everyone else and has nothing to do with their intelligence or ideologies.

It's interesting that people are LITERALLY risking their lives, and dying to get into the United States, while millions of ungrateful United States citizens are constantly protesting to show how miserable they are here.

a reply to: chr0naut

A point I was making was we're all good or we're all not so good. We can take apart, or praise, any country on Earth and where does it leave us? If it isn't you, someone else will roll up and post a counterpoint, or point elsewhere, and ask why such and such gets a free pass. It's a constant circular argument that rarely does much more than give expression to one's beliefs. I made a bunch of points and if you took that all as ra-ra USA I can only mutter at the internet...

We're part of the 'five eyes' nations and don't have any high horses to ride on. Arguably we don't deliver freedom anywhere despite it being part of our domestic ideologies. It can be said we only seek regional stability where it suits us and otherwise destabilise nations. All nations are riven with inequality etc. I'm not blind to history, but you should appreciate that what goes into a post isn't the sum total of a person. It's a short (hopefully) point in the moment. I hope you enjoyed writing your post and researching its points as much as I enjoyed reading them.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: chr0naut

A point I was making was we're all good or we're all not so good. We can take apart, or praise, any country on Earth and where does it leave us? If it isn't you, someone else will roll up and post a counterpoint, or point elsewhere, and ask why such and such gets a free pass. It's a constant circular argument that rarely does much more than give expression to one's beliefs. I made a bunch of points and if you took that all as ra-ra USA I can only mutter at the internet...

We're part of the 'five eyes' nations and don't have any high horses to ride on. Arguably we don't deliver freedom anywhere despite it being part of our domestic ideologies. It can be said we only seek regional stability where it suits us and otherwise destabilise nations. All nations are riven with inequality etc. I'm not blind to history, but you should appreciate that what goes into a post isn't the sum total of a person. It's a short (hopefully) point in the moment. I hope you enjoyed writing your post and researching its points as much as I enjoyed reading them.

I understand where you are coming from.

We need each other (as representatives of different nations) to really evaluate fairly because we are too close and embedded in our own respective lives and cultures to take the long view.

I suppose it is our human failing that we are overwhelmed by our immediate scenarios.

It takes more than a country or a system to build a hopeful future world. I just hope that the world I leave for my kids is better than the one my generation inherited.

But to achieve that, we have to evaluate even the good things critically.

originally posted by: FredT
a reply to: chr0naut

Very well put and to the point. Its sort of a hybrid Capitalist/socialist society that swings one way or the other depending on the elected officials and the like but stays somewhat close to the core

That hybrid Capitalist/Socialist society is pretty much what Democratic Socialists like Bernie Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez are talking about and what I was referring to in my posts.

I happen to like it myself and I can't understand why people have a problem with it. Help out the people on the bottom with Socialist polices while allowing Capitalist tendencies for the people on the top. It's win-win and covers the weaknesses of each system. But it's hated by the right just because we have to pay higher taxes to have a system like that.

I always chuckle when I see people from other countries paint all Americans with the same brush.

Especially Europeans, they love to act superior and say how well traveled they are... yet they typically only go to other western European nations that by in large share the same basic culture as their home country but might speak a different language.
Its almost laughable, some of my german friends who love to tell me what is "really" happening in the US were utterly gob smacked when I told them I voted third party. Then I had to explain that nearly half the registered voters in the US are not republican or democrat, and that yes we have third parties.
A guy that is called a left wing liberal in alabama would probably be called a moderate or a RWN in the North east or on the left coast.

In germany I laugh ( at myself mostly) when I see folks around berlin mocking and laughing at people from bavaria because they talk funny... kind of like how yankees mock and laugh at southerners in the US.
The similarities I saw between the US and Europe were truly eye opening to me... I mean the real people not the politicians and their policies.

But what do I know I am just a dumb yank.