1930s France failed to anticipate the future at great cost; are we going down the same road?

a reply to: Metallicus

The only reason why the US is so powerful is because of it's capabilities to absolutely obliterate any nation off this planet.

War completely changed after the US dropped two nuclear weapons on Japan. If a situation like France happened again, it would not look nice.
With that said, the time will come when a world leader will be out matched and will have to seriously restrain from using such weapons again, or just admit defeat in what ever situation they are in; IE the China, US Trade war. Who knows where it will go, but in the past it would have certainly lead to war by now. But it doesn't warrant for the use of nuclear weapons, and getting into a conventional war with China would be disastrous.

But it's funny how you say:

We need to stop worrying about how wars are fought and start looking for reasons not to fight them in the first place.

What is happening literally right now in the world is why wars start. Foreign leader(s) bullying each other. We're lucky we live in a time where our leaders are rather educated, and think of the greater good, nationalism can go to far you know.

All out war doesn't have to be the only action China takes against the US; nor does it have to be the only action a prepared US would need to take in retaliation (all though an unprepared US might find it one of it's only options). When I suggest the current US reminds me of 1930s France it's not from a military perspective; the 1930s was a very different time and war was also very different. What I find reminiscent is the inability or unwillingness to see and prepare for the future and instead getting stuck replaying its battles from the past.

a reply to: DanDanDat

What the HELL are you smoking, and can I have some?

The only reason I ask, is that of all the nations on this planet, the only one that could be said to be just straight up ready to do ANYTHING militarily without stretching itself, is America. Its got bullets and bombs coming out of its proverbial orifices, guns and vehicles sprouting like weeds from its every single opening. America is a thrice damned warmachine that needs taking apart, not building up!

For goodness sake, hasn't your lot done enough damage already?

originally posted by: atsgrounded
China is being ignored because they make alot of stuff that corps sell to the masses making the Corps HUGE profits. Cut China and cut profits. This is why their dismal human-environmental-currency violations are no biggy.

Why is it that Russia, a country and economy barely holding its head above water, dominates our current politics so pervasively while the real and eminent threat of China is all but ignoring?

a reply to: DanDanDat

Every corporation is buying services from China. My last company made electronic gadgets. Normally they had a group of engineers working in a room repairing returned and broken items. Now that work has been offshored to China.
Universities took on foreign students so they could grow their departments and bring in more revenue.

Corporations now depend on international students to work as interns and engineers. But that isn't without risk:
www.politico.com...

The government knows the risk, but big money wants the profits.

a reply to: DanDanDat

Bonjour, as my heritage is part cheese eating surrender monkey I have to agree.

I'll post a hypothetical...what if Chinese workers went on strike just after the next Iphone release announcement? millions of white privileged millennials would lose their collective flipping minds!

Despite the dickensian working conditions, people will still buy a Chinese built smart phone. Trump wants more US built products and that will work to a point-Americans will buy American cars-that's a given. But certain companies will and continue to utilize China to escape enforcing minimum wage laws because an hourly wage in the US is a months wage in China.

As long there is China, No country will truly be an independent economic powerhouse-except for Germany and my former radio partner in crime (Which is unsurprisingly German) would agree as well. No one wants a corvette-unless it's a '69 stingray because Asia can produce quality cars for the quarter of the price. Sure America can produce some quality products but they appeal to a niche market-My next guitar will be from an American brand because when it comes to guitars the yanks know what they are doing, and if I ever want a custom built chopper to cruise the streets with then yeah I'm going bald eagle.

But those are luxuries, not necessities. Everyday items are not America's strong point, yes they have the artisans but no one will pay an extra buck for a bar of soap because it was made in America, I try to buy local when I can but the locals can't compete.

Trump won't win his "trade war" because everyone needs a Chinese built smartphone but no one needs a Bonneville built Harley.

a reply to: DanDanDat

It’s because American politicians do not care about the American people, period. And the news is used to fill the heads of people with trash to confuse them into voting.

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: DanDanDat
Trump won't win his "trade war" because everyone needs a Chinese built smartphone but no one needs a Bonneville built Harley.

No, nobody actually needs any smart phone. And I would love nothing more to own an American phone. But we need incentives to have domestic suppliers build them again. Incentives like sanctions and tariffs on foreign competition utilizing unfair and manipulative business practices.

Corporations did not move to China primarily for the low wage. That was a bonus. They had to move to China because the Chinese cornered the Rare Earth Minerals market in the early nineties and backroom demands said if they wanted ANYTHING manufactured there, they would have to have everything made there, otherwise no cheap electronics. Who else would we have been able to procure the elements necessary for the last twenty years of developing consumer electronics? Thanks to some recent overseas endeavors, our civilization has gained access to minerals and resources from previously unavailable markets.

Thats the reason China is mad at us, we are finally gaining REM independence and they do not like that. Of course the methods to gain access to those markets may be questionable to some, but its either that or be Chinas economy bitch for more generations. What you been seeing since POTUS took office is the blowback from trying to free ourselves from Chinas slave grasp of dependence on subsidized manufacturing. Of course the Chinese, and their bribed puppet leaders in EU are not going to be happy. half the EU already bent their knee to China as far as the economy goes. The US is in the process of standing back up now that we have a leader who does not take #e lying down.

All empires wax and wain, the biggest question is not the when, but the how?

The British had the largest empire in history, but under the burden of debt, war and changing world it withered and died. The only consolation was that it was a managed decline designed to retain maximum influence, which arguably we did manage to keep more of a voice than a country our size should have.

I think the danger with America is that the ending will be with a bang. The Chinese have been patiently watching and planning, as the Chinese don't see a need to rush. They plan long term, think of consequences and wait until they act. I'm sure they have an aim to replace america in economic and military terms, why wouldn't they? But they probably know this wont happen without a confrontation.

With all respect to our American cousins, your spirit, pride and ethos does not always lead you to think long term, and I suspect this will not lead to a managed decline where you retain influence and soft power. I suspect you will find your sphere of influence abandons you for the next new thing, and you will be left just a shell.

Either way the more worrying implication is that for the first time in 500 years the world will not be faced with Pax Britannia or pax Americana, but pax china......the first time the transition has not been to a friendly power and the first time the "bad" guy has been in charge!

I can't think of a modern war that was not firstly propagandized, secondly started under suspicious circumstances and lastly not amply supplied by the very wealthy or soon to be very wealthy.
Oh and also when the wars are looked back on objectively, there is ample evidence that the peoples of the waring nations were lead around by the nose. (bay of tonkin)

originally posted by: atsgrounded
a reply to: Metallicus

When war is not profitable there will be none.

If I don't value war but my enemy does, who wins?


Seriously, I get it. Again, who wins?

enough of the hiltor pr0paganda.
they all let us know, even in grade school, how much a villain he was.

dude did not even start the war.
he was a total scumbag, the grandson of a r0thshcild. how do you think he got the money to fund his war?

ask yourself this, who sold germany oil during w2?

he was a pawn in the internati0nalist money/land grab known as w2.

he was a sociopath, but enough of him. he is dead thankfully, so enough bitching about the grandson of a r0thschild.

i hate war, hate the internati0nalists, and i hate pr0paganda.

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: highvein
a reply to: DanDanDat


Maybe making friends with Russia is a good idea then.

For the wars you think are coming.

It's quite possible Russia and China are already friends and Russia's current provocative nature is a means to get us to take our eye off the ball... and we are buying it hook line and sinker.

I agree with your assessment.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: DanDanDat

What the HELL are you smoking, and can I have some?

The only reason I ask, is that of all the nations on this planet, the only one that could be said to be just straight up ready to do ANYTHING militarily without stretching itself, is America. Its got bullets and bombs coming out of its proverbial orifices, guns and vehicles sprouting like weeds from its every single opening. America is a thrice damned warmachine that needs taking apart, not building up!

For goodness sake, hasn't your lot done enough damage already?

My lot?


According to the article I linked too China will be in a position to not have to "stretch" itself over the next decade and a half. I also stated it might be in China's best interest to do a bit of stretching if it gives then an advantage to act while we are unprepared.

Also their actions dont have to be starting a shooting war with the US. They could take smaller steps (taking control of a Pacific Country or restrict acces through the south China sea).

The size of the US warmachine and how big you think it should be is irrelevant. It could very much be the monster you make it out to be ... but what good would it do if the US is to decided to find it's way out of a wet paper bag... or worse in a state of ill preparedness in dealing with China the US leaders deside using the monster warmachine is the only option.

originally posted by: blackrabbit1
All empires wax and wain, the biggest question is not the when, but the how?

The British had the largest empire in history, but under the burden of debt, war and changing world it withered and died. The only consolation was that it was a managed decline designed to retain maximum influence, which arguably we did manage to keep more of a voice than a country our size should have.

I think the danger with America is that the ending will be with a bang. The Chinese have been patiently watching and planning, as the Chinese don't see a need to rush. They plan long term, think of consequences and wait until they act. I'm sure they have an aim to replace america in economic and military terms, why wouldn't they? But they probably know this wont happen without a confrontation.

With all respect to our American cousins, your spirit, pride and ethos does not always lead you to think long term, and I suspect this will not lead to a managed decline where you retain influence and soft power. I suspect you will find your sphere of influence abandons you for the next new thing, and you will be left just a shell.

Either way the more worrying implication is that for the first time in 500 years the world will not be faced with Pax Britannia or pax Americana, but pax china......the first time the transition has not been to a friendly power and the first time the "bad" guy has been in charge!

Thanks for the reply. I agree long term planning is not a skill the US has in abundance. I also agree that in the face of no real plan or strategy the US will eventually (far to late) choose to retaliate militarily and would likely fail at that point.

I also agree with your final point; US status as a super power in and of itself is almost irrelevant ... the idea that the world will be run by the Chinese government is more alarming than the US losing its status.