Smoke got my eyes lookin’ Korean.. is that racist?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Can't you say anything to a friend if it is banter. I have an arab mate and often tease him when we are out doing something and he has a backpack on, like sure you've only got your packed lunch in there or whatever. He laughs back stuff like nah mate, I'd stab you to death and make you count while I cut off your fingers for being an infidel pig dog.
It's a laugh between mates when both know the context and have love and respect between each other.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Of course. You aren't following the conversation. He said the context matters. I then pointed out it doesn't matter for the n word, it's instant racism.

He then said that word can only ever be racist. I pointed out that is a lie.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy of how it's all about context until a white person does it, then it's just racist, end of story. Like the girl who won the contest to sing that rap song and was booed for saying the word.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Oh I agreed mate, should have been more clear sorry, it's tricky sometimes in solely text based communication, I type as people can hear how I'm saying it sometimes lol
The race divide is crazy in the US compared to the UK from my perspective.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

In America we don't wait for the people involved to get offended, we get offended for them, even when they have no problem with the situation.

a reply to: TommyD1966

No you are not. 'Charlamagne Tha God' is a black man appropriating white European culture.

a reply to: lakenheath24

Did you have sex with any Aboriginal women?

a reply to: TinySickTears

Rappers have been talking about how marijuana makes Their eyes look Asian or "chinky" etc, for a very, very long time. This is nothing new.

Blacks are allowed to be racist, I thought everyone knew this. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it's true.

Rap songs have a tradition of speaking honesty. Sometimes honesty includes a little racism. The myth is that all racism is bad, all the time.

The Dave Chappelle show was racist as hell. But it was honest. Not necessarily honest about reality, but honest about our perceptions.

Any way, look at rap songs from the early 90s on, they tell the truth about the way they perceive white people, the way they perceive other black people, southeast Asians, mideast folk, Indians...

Black people were never made to wear a muzzle and watch their words so that nobody gets offended.

So, as a white guy, if I write a rap 'song' (haha) and say something like "I just flipped, landed two hits, left him battered and split, looks like he's got swollen nigga lips" or some such (I'm no rapper, obviously 😂) then is that racist? If it is then so was the Korean line... if not then I guess not..

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: TommyD1966

No. It's just a really stupid name.

Anything with "the" in the name as an in your face descriptor is stupid. I also thought Prince's Symbol name was dumb as well.

You obviously hate the interwebz

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

In America we don't wait for the people involved to get offended, we get offended for them, even when they have no problem with the situation.

Ah it's a minor problem here, but I know what you mean.
My local Chinese takeaway had a few silly non Chinese people get offended when they arranged leaflets delivered and on the top it said in bold "Wanna Chinky sensation tonight?".
They got offended because of the 'Chinky' and also the undertones of female enslavement and people traficking prostitution. Honestly you couldn't make it up.

Anyway, they were shouted down by the takeaway store, the other Chinese stores/community, and every other rational person. Even the local newspaper didn't cover it, it was just a few pathetic non Chinese whiners on local social media.
Ordering a Chinky is just slang for Chinese here, and the Chinese know it is just as slang as the local word for tourists 'Grockles' but it is not an insult.

The people who wined were called out and shamed, it was funny.

EDIT
If my local Chinese community had a slang term for me like Prawn Cracker or something I'd find it funny if no harm was meant. My skin colour in winter is just like a Prawn Cracker lol

Lets go through the test.

1st part was it a derogatory statement?

Yes he is using a stereo type to make fun of asians.

Can we substitute another race in the sentence and it still makes sense.

No we can not so we are still being racist so far.

Is he white or belong to a right wing organization?

No i dont believe this applies in thus case.

Is he a minority?

Yes he is this means according to current rules he gets a free pass.

So after our questions we can say the statement is indeed racist however the person is not.

Jury dismissed

Not that I recall. But as long as she wasnt canadian....all is good. Canadian bacon is made out of beaver. Just thought Id throw that out there.

a reply to: Cutepants

a reply to: Indrasweb

Star for the excellent question, maybe not the best rapping but it worked lol

I think in the example you give it has negative undertones of violence associated with the comparison. That's why it is an excellent question. There is only negative association with swollen lips for non african people, injury, infection, or botox gone wrong.
My personal perspective with comparisons made about anyone with race or genetics is if it's not meant to actually diss a group, but just compare a physical genetic trait with something, then it ain't racism.
I think some vocal people are too sensitive these days.

originally posted by: Indrasweb
So, as a white guy, if I write a rap 'song' (haha) and say something like "I just flipped, landed two hits, left him battered and split, looks like he's got swollen nigga lips" or some such (I'm no rapper, obviously 😂) then is that racist? If it is then so was the Korean line... if not then I guess not..

You seriously don't see the difference and why your analogy is just... horrible?

a reply to: Bone75

Star from me for recognising the negative associations in the comparison, but it is an excellent question for say full on philosophical debate, which I'm not chasing, but I say the question stands.
My reply is I think if the intent of the comparison is not in an internally inspired negative intent then it ain't racism.
Some folk might not like it but I also support free speech, and the line in the OP in itself is not racist. It depends on the intent.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

That reminds me of something that happened a few years back. I had an Asian girlfriend and I was on the phone with a guy giving me directions, and he tells me "up that road, there's a Gook Store, and..."

Any ways, I just kind of laughed it off awkwardly on the phone, and played it off with facial expressions, like "this crazy guy, you never know what he will say next.. "cause I didn't really know what to do,but I knew he didn't mean any offense by it, he was just describing it to me in the way he knew how, and maybe he is a racist, i really don't know, but in that situation, he wasn't being one. He wasn't out to hurt someone.

But, I was a little concerned because, I am always trying to look out for my girlfriends' feelings, so when I got off the phone, I just explained to her, you know, hey, that guy is an idiot, we already know that, but, im sure he didn't mean anything by it. If he upset you in any way with the gook store comment, I'll have a talk with him when I see him and ask him to apologize.

She looked at me and asked, "what's a Gook Store?"

originally posted by: Indrasweb
So, as a white guy, if I write a rap 'song' (haha) and say something like "I just flipped, landed two hits, left him battered and split, looks like he's got swollen nigga lips" or some such (I'm no rapper, obviously 😂) then is that racist? If it is then so was the Korean line... if not then I guess not..

Well... no, but yes...

Your comparison is invalid, but the point you are trying to make, is valid. There are indeed different sets of rules based on your appearance, skin color, ethnicity, etc. It's our punishment for being white and evil.

a reply to: 3n19m470

Cool story fella
There are undertones to 'gook' some folk will take offence to due to the war, but if the guy meant no ill intent then it was not racism.
Ever been to Thailand? They have a word which is literally described as 'person of white race' and I was never insulted by that, just how someone said it matters to me.
I've had people shout it at me in anger and then it was racist, but in general use it is just a descriptive term.
EDIT
The word is 'Farang'

a reply to: Bone75

Actually the comparison is fine to illustrate the point I was making.

The point raised by the OP is; is something being considered racist based on subjective or objective observations.


If it is objective then the comment in the OP is unquestionably racist.

If it is subjective then... well, it may or may not be based on your point of view.

The problem then is ANYTHING can be deemed racist, by anyone, if they consider it so.

In which case, we should see any comment made by anyone about anything relating to colour, culture, ethnicity etc challenged as racist, yet we do not....

So what's going on?

Is it objective then? or is there a terrible hypocrisy at work?

Eta: also, if we accept that whether a comment is racist or not is based on subjective opinion then I could perfectly reasonably hold the opinion that calling a black person "'n-word'" is not racist and that would be equally as valid as somone claiming it is racist. Unless you're going to argue that one group of people's opinion is more valid than another.. in which case I would be very interested to here the argument in favour of that point of view

originally posted by: Indrasweb

So, as a white guy, if I write a rap 'song' (haha) and say something like "I just flipped, landed two hits, left him battered and split, looks like he's got swollen nigga lips" or some such (I'm no rapper, obviously 😂) then is that racist? If it is then so was the Korean line... if not then I guess not..

I'd drop the "nigga" because that's a little too close to the N word. If you were to replace it with something like "bruh man" then that plays on the black stereotype using a humorous character.

I think utilizing some benign aspects of racial/cultural/ethnic/social stereotypes is fully acceptable. But, it's best to steer clear of derogatory themes. I believe that should apply to everyone.

The rapper used the word "Korean," and he was playing on the Asian eyelid fold stereotype, which is a common characteristic of Koreans. If he had used more derogatory terms like "chink" or "gook" then that might be closer to racism.

On the other hand, if he was playing on the "Asians can't drive" derogatory stereotype, then he's getting into questionable territory.

Ultimately, I guess each individual case has to be judged on its own merits by applying, within reasonable limits, currently accepted cultural norms.

Personally I think our current notions of political correctness have gone way too far. We're spending far too much time and effort to make sure that our actions and speech don't offend anyone.

-dex

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: Bone75

Star from me for recognising the negative associations in the comparison, but it is an excellent question for say full on philosophical debate, which I'm not chasing, but I say the question stands.
My reply is I think if the intent of the comparison is not in an internally inspired negative intent then it ain't racism.
Some folk might not like it but I also support free speech, and the line in the OP in itself is not racist. It depends on the intent.

There is an interesting philosophical conversation to be had.

Racism is when you attribute negative or positive traits to a person or group based on their skin color or ethnicity.

For example, saying that black people are bad at tipping or being courteous is racist. Saying that white people are better at math and being generous and friendly is racist and White Superiority

Now let's reverse it. Is saying black people are better at sports and being cool, racist, and Black Superiority? How about saying white people don't know how to dance and they are always uptight? Is that racist?

Black superiority and other race superiority is considered ok just as long as it's not white. It's alright to give the Asians a pat on the back for being studious and polite. It's great to applaud blacks for being great dancers and "overcoming all that racism" everyday, just by existing. It's totally cool to say that Mexicans are very passionate lovemakers and we cheer for THEIR traditional family structure which has clearly defined roles for men, women, children, mothers, fathers, grandparents. It's not considered oppressive towards women, or offensive towards LGBT groups for them to be proud of their culture that includes a strong family.

The so called minority groups receive steady injections of pride, and encouragement, worldwide public support, defense, media protection, confidence, motivation, material/monetary assistance, celebrity endorsement, government/legal endorsement...

White people are the new "n-word"s.