Freemasonry: A Secret Society or a Society with Secrets?

originally posted by: CanadianMason
a reply to: LABTECH767

Isaiah 14: 12 ~ "O Lucifer, son of the morning!"

Revelation 22:16 ~ "I Jesus...I am...the bright and morning star."

What's the difference here, or is there none?

Sounds like Jesus is Luke's Father

a reply to: ParasuvO

Masonry will never be revived

That's possible, I suppose. But there are rumours Masonry is picking up speed lately. So, we'll see.

a reply to: ParasuvO

Jesus is Luke's Father

Hahaha! And the mother? Mary Mag?

originally posted by: CanadianMason
a reply to: Skywatcher2011

Stage 2 of 6 in my initiation of FreeMasonry

Are you certain you are receiving a regular initiation? No offence intended but, by the sounds of it, you aren't.

Because I do not have any family members in Free Masonry, they have an increased screening process to ensure they have the right people in the group. I am totally new to this but apparently it takes about a year to finish the process of initiation. So I have been told.

a reply to: Skywatcher2011

I see. I won't ask you to share your location here but, I will ask you to visit the U.G.L.E. website and look at the list of Foreign Grand Lodges 'recognized' as legit by the United Grand Lodge of England to see if your location and Lodge is listed there. www.ugle.org.uk... If not, well, that would mean you're not getting the real deal. Here's a link to learn about 'Fake Masonry': masonicinfo.com... You should try to find out before you go too much further.

originally posted by: CanadianMason
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Freemasons have already done that. It's called the United States of America. You're welcome.

America is not the 'world'.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I know. I was kidding - and I don't even know how accurate that was anyway. I know there were some Amercian Founding Fathers who also happened to be Freemasons. Here in Canada, our first Prime Minister, Sir John A. MacDonald, was a Mason. In any case, that's all besides the point. Someone has yet to provide me with any evidence that Freemasons are part of some sort of 'big bad global cabal' working towards creating a 'new world order'.

a reply to: CanadianMason

Well if you are a mason you will be expected to lie........to keep secrets.
Astronauts that went to the moon were masons.
Lots of lies are being told, to deceive, by authority figures, that the public trust.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

if you are a mason you will be expected to lie........to keep secrets

Where did you get that notion from? No Mason of any rank that I have ever met in my lifetime has ever asked me to lie - not even once; nor expects this from me; nor do I expect any other Masons to lie.

Perhaps you have us confused with some other group.

The only thing about Masonry I have sworn to keep secret is the 'Modes of Recognition'. Even those are available online somewhere but only to a certain degree of accuracy from what I have seen. If you want to learn those "secrets", you won't get them from me, that's for sure. I've put too much time and money into acquiring them for myself. They are like 'pearls', you know? And I dare not cast them to anybody who has not earned them.

a reply to: CanadianMason


I have a very long thread from 2012 on the subject.

a reply to: LABTECH767
The only place in the Bible mentions Lucifer is Isaiah 14:12, but Isaiah 14:4 identifies him as a Babylonian King

a reply to: RoScoLaz5
That is a false misconception. Freemasons are told their Obligations to Freemasonry do not supersede their obligations/duties to God, country, family, friends, or neighbors.

a reply to: CanadianMason
Maybe he's Swedish Rite: www.travelingtemplar.com...

a reply to: ParasuvO
You are mistaken.

Freemasonry as we know it today has gone through several transitional periods. During this era, the Masonic fraternity is seeing an increase in the number of younger men joining and the decline in the membership rate is starting to slow. This may be due to the fact that the WWII generation death rates are slowing; with fewer and fewer of them alive, there are fewer to die. It could be due to the fact that the "Millennials" are rejecting the beliefs of the counterculture revolution and putting interest back into civic organizations like Freemasonry.

a reply to: Itisnowagain
Lying is not condoned in Freemasonry.

Only a handful of astronauts have been Masons: freemasoninformation.com...

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

NIce, thanks...here's the link where people can find it. It's remarkable it went for 5 years with over 2.5k posts, lol!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm starting to get the impression that I'm very late in the game, like, re-hashing stuff about Freemasonry that has already been hashed before - probably ad infinitum.

a reply to: KSigMason

Maybe he's Swedish Rite

Huh...I had no idea! It has 10 degrees and 2 honourary degrees!

a reply to: KSigMason

Anything that slows the counterculture is a good thing.

A loss of confusion and some solid mentorship is indeed vital.

Hope you are right and more get involved.

We sure as hell need it.

a reply to: CanadianMason

Sorry just logged back in, Lucifer is usually associated with Venus and a more hellish world you would be hard pressed to find though you know about 2 billion or so years ago it may have been extremely earth like?

Almost the same size as the earth, two large continental land masses, tectonic platelet's and a large planet wide ocean basin/lowland, some even claim there are ruin's there but I doubt it even if the planet ever managed to support life after baking that long in those condition's nothing would have survived - let alone the natural course of geological upheaval and it's own version of super heated erosion over those intervening ages.

The Morning star of Jesus is that he is the New Day, the SUN itself of that new day, the herald of the new earth and his mother - ALL orthodox and catholic ORIGINAL - post Judea forms of Christianity revere her as able to intercede between man and her divine son.

Lucifer WAS once the prince of the heavenly host though he was very much a CREATURE unlike Jesus whom is Begotten of God, Lucifer did not want to bow down before MAN as God had instructed him to do so since man was created in God's likeness, this was probably a deliberate act since Lucifer had long hungered after God's own thrown and assumed himself to be God's Equal (see the dualistic religion Zoroastrianism Ahura Mazda the creator and Angra Manyu the evil being he created as a companion that turned Evil and then tried to take his place - though that is not really relevant since that is a different religion but one with many interesting parallel's).

So outraged that HE the prince of the heavenly host, the shining and glorious one, the most beautiful (or so it is claimed) and powerful angel of heaven had been ordered to bow before such a lowly creature as man he led a revolt taking a full third of the angel's of heaven whom were in agree'ance with him to try to depose the very creator of the universe, his army's seemed unstoppable but the third lowest Choir of Heaven, angel's whom non considered except the almighty himself whom knew them far better than the other angels since he had made them, the third lowest choir whom had been ignored by the proud and self important Lucifer Stood up and put themselves between him and God's throne, what chance did these children have but they won.

They had God inside of them since they were willing to lay down there existence to protect there father and so he became there father taking them into himself and making them incapable of sin since there actions are in his name from that time forth, you may know the seven as the archangels Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, Barachiel, Sealtiel (orthodox have a different name but the same figure) and Jhudiel.

There actions saved the very universe for perhaps God had gotten tired of his creation seeing the worm inside of Lucifer and so much else of the creation rotting the creature, pride, greed and self importance but the actions of these children restored his love for creation or perhaps REVEALED it and so they gained the very thing they had not sought out of there own self sacrifice which Lucifer whom they stood against and CAST DOWN had tried to seize by force.

Lucifer could never have defeated God but had he touched the throne he and the rest of creation would have been totally annihilated, the archangels act of utter selflessness saved us from that.

But NOW Lucifer is in the earth, hating mankind with a hatred older than the stars themselves and damned to never again be an angel of the lord but to face the fate he had earned upon himself and his followers.

The difference is that Lucifer is the counterfeit but he is named after Venus - obviously he is not venus but a more fitting counterfeit earth there is not, a hellish world and Jesus is NOT named after Venus but in fact he is the TRUE light not the false light, He is GOD's Light not the Devil's false Light.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Hello @Labtech767. Thank you for your reply. You have provided me with a lot to chew on.

I don't know whether to laugh, cringe or cry.

Lucifer is usually associated with Venus

I am not a Christian; I don't accept your Lucifer fellow as a real being. So, you can claim that "Lucifer is usually associated with Venus" but, that doesn't make any difference to me. You are entitled to believe that if you so wish.

The Morning star of Jesus is that he is the New Day, the SUN itself of that new day, the herald of the new earth and his mother - ALL orthodox and catholic ORIGINAL - post Judea forms of Christianity revere her as able to intercede between man and her divine son.

You believe Jesus, the "Morning Star", is "the SUN itself"? Like, the actual physical sun? Do I understand you correctly, that this is what the Roman Catholic Church originally believed and taught? I'm not sure if I'm following you.

Jesus' mother was Mary, right; am I correct in understanding you to mean that she is to be revered as an intercessor "between man and her divine son"? She is the 'Morning Star' - Venus - and not Jesus or Lucifer?

Wouldn't that mean the Mother of Jesus - Venus - is associated with Lucifer who is associated with Venus?

I'm very confused. Please enlighten me.

a reply to: ParasuvO

a reply to: ParasuvO


a reply to: LABTECH767
You do know why Venus is associated with the word Lucifer, right? It has nothing to do with Hell, but it does have to do with a pentagram and the evening star.

The Morning Star is a star that preceded the rising sun, not the sun itself.

Lucifer, according to Isaiah 14:4, was a disgraced Babylonian king. Nowhere else in the Bible is the word "Lucifer" mentioned. The Devil, Satan, was known in Heaven as Samael, not Lucifer.

As for the archangels, some churches only recognize four archangels: Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel.

The word Lucifer was a mistranslation by St. Jerome. He mistook a title or figurative name with a literal name and now, if you study philology, Lucifer = Morning Star = Jesus Christ and many also attribute Lucifer = Satan. It's the ultimate cognitive dissonance.

a reply to: CanadianMason


My word's were poorly chosen - NOT 'THE' Sun as in Sol but the TRUE SUN of God's light to us, the light of the spirit.
www.kingjamesbibleonline.org...

Think for a moment on all those that claim to be know, those that think they are wise and enlightened and ponder the meaning of Shelley's poem Ozymandias.

The enlightenment of this world is like the thing's they build totally in vain, like the mandala that the Tibetan monk's spend sometime's month's or even years making with it's perfect intricate detail it is doomed to be swept away, so there is no King but the king whom is outside of time, no wisdom but his and no enlightenment but that which he bestows for all else is vanity.

The God of Jesus whom WE whom believe ourselves to be followers of, also known as the followers of the way - original term for christian's "I am the WAY and the LIFE and the RESURRECTION" - believe he is not only the begotten son of but one with at his right hand equal to in his presence for ever more is actually NOT subject to the law's of time, he makes from the end to the beginning and before Abraham I AM - BEFORE AM not WAS BUT AM, not therefore Subject to our much lower dimensional causality and/or being bound to our reality like fly's stuck to fly paper, he stand's outside, hold's it all in his hand encompassing it and also penetrated all of creation so is genuinely omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient - it is we whom can not see what he can until and unless he show's us and of course we are far too small causal being's to see or even comprehend that let alone him except that he show's a form of himself to us to form a bridge - a way and that way is Jesus.

But I am NOT going to try to convert you, Seek and You SHALL find, what is it that you seek.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
The God of Jesus whom WE whom believe ourselves to be followers of, also known as the followers of the way - original term for christian's "I am the WAY and the LIFE and the RESURRECTION" - believe he is not only the begotten son of but one with at his right hand equal to in his presence for ever more is actually NOT subject to the law's of time, he makes from the end to the beginning and before Abraham I AM - BEFORE AM not WAS BUT AM, not therefore Subject to our much lower dimensional causality and/or being bound to our reality like fly's stuck to fly paper, he stand's outside, hold's it all in his hand encompassing it and also penetrated all of creation so is genuinely omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient - it is we whom can not see what he can until and unless he show's us and of course we are far too small causal being's to see or even comprehend that let alone him except that he show's a form of himself to us to form a bridge - a way and that way is Jesus.

What if there is only what is present .....now? God is what is present 'seeing and knowing' his son...which is always appearing presently.
Is there really 'any thing' other?

Is it not words and thoughts about 'other' that is deceptive?

You know..................all this talk about 'things' that happened in 'time' just conceals the truth.
By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. George Carlin.