Proof that Snopes and AP have no Business being being "Fact Checkers"

If you care about truth, then this article I ran across, points to something disturbing and important.

Before the 2016 election, people freely chose their sources for information, had discussions about the veracity and accuracy of those sources if they chose to question them, and then formed opinions based on those discussions. Now, however, this choice and discussion is quickly fading away and is being replaced by a seeming ministry of truth made up of ostensibly objective media outlets like Politifact, Snopes, and the Associated Press.

Now, Snopes, the AP, and Politifact have woven themselves into the fabric of social media and have become the be all end all of “truth.” As a result of this new cozy relationship, they have the power to silence anyone they deem to be false—facts and reality be damned.

Case in point. Within the last month, Snopes and the Associated Press both claimed that articles we wrote were false when they clearly were not. As a result of their illegitimate claims, the Free Thought Project has watched our website traffic drop.

The AP created a fake story and then debunked it, and the truth, our readers, and our social media presence suffered as a result.

Read the details in the link above.

The mere idea of politically biased "fact checkers" alone is highly disturbing. Why do we need Nanny Institutions to censor for us, as if we were too dumb to form our own opinions and make our own choices on what to share?

And why do people need to receive "warnings" from social media for stories they shared? This is like sending adults back to a grade school level.

What has bothered me most about places like Snopes, is that they use easily debunkable trash-websites to make their point, but never cite rational or sincere news sources from "the other side". Their attempt is to mock and smear, not to find the truth.

I think the reason this Orwellian "Ministry of Truth" Ops is being created is because TPTB underestimated the power of a free internet where information can be shared without filters. MSM lost their Monopoly on "Truth" and it terrifies them. So now they'll punish, throttle, censor and ban anyone who strays from the hive-mind.

What can we do to counter this blatant attempt at "truth" consolidation?

Case in point. Within the last month, Snopes and the Associated Press both claimed that articles we wrote were false when they clearly were not.

From your link .
Snopes was wrong.
Why ?
Because we said they were....

Going to have to use a better rebuttal than that.

originally posted by: Gothmog

Snopes was wrong.
Why ?
Because we said they were....

On June 8, Snopes attempted to claim that a story we wrote about Veterans on Patrol was false by claiming that we said this veterans group discovered a child trafficking camp in Tuscon, AZ. The only problem with this claim is that we never made it.

Snopes makes stuff up.

Their made up stuff is used to censor and throttle legitimate independent reporting.

I saw this earlier .I check TFTP often. Their stories are no faker than anything on the MSM, They just report themn with extreme anti government anti police Bias.

Hey a little like how the MSM reports theirs .with extreme bias.

The problem is the MSM wants to be the only one telling us our news, that seems pretty unamerican to me...

a reply to: Skyfloating

I wonder when this will start effecting ATS?????

originally posted by: Skyfloating
If you care about truth, then this article I ran across, points to something disturbing and important.

Before the 2016 election, people freely chose their sources for information, had discussions about the veracity and accuracy of those sources if they chose to question them, and then formed opinions based on those discussions. Now, however, this choice and discussion is quickly fading away and is being replaced by a seeming ministry of truth made up of ostensibly objective media outlets like Politifact, Snopes, and the Associated Press.

Now, Snopes, the AP, and Politifact have woven themselves into the fabric of social media and have become the be all end all of “truth.” As a result of this new cozy relationship, they have the power to silence anyone they deem to be false—facts and reality be damned.

Case in point. Within the last month, Snopes and the Associated Press both claimed that articles we wrote were false when they clearly were not. As a result of their illegitimate claims, the Free Thought Project has watched our website traffic drop.

The AP created a fake story and then debunked it, and the truth, our readers, and our social media presence suffered as a result.

Read the details in the link above.

The mere idea of politically biased "fact checkers" alone is highly disturbing. Why do we need Nanny Institutions to censor for us, as if we were too dumb to form our own opinions and make our own choices on what to share?

And why do people need to receive "warnings" from social media for stories they shared? This is like sending adults back to a grade school level.

What has bothered me most about places like Snopes, is that they use easily debunkable trash-websites to make their point, but never cite rational or sincere news sources from "the other side". Their attempt is to mock and smear, not to find the truth.

I think the reason this Orwellian "Ministry of Truth" Ops is being created is because TPTB underestimated the power of a free internet where information can be shared without filters. MSM lost their Monopoly on "Truth" and it terrifies them. So now they'll punish, throttle, censor and ban anyone who strays from the hive-mind.

What can we do to counter this blatant attempt at "truth" consolidation?

LOL...

Any actual intelligent person understands that anyone can make up whatever they want online.

The fact people need to be told things are real and things aren't is what kills me.

I believe we are seeing the death throes of critical thinking....and it is sad.

Personally....I would run with a slogan of "If you haven't witnessed it personally, it isn't real" ....that way at least people would attempt to look for themselves and maybe, just maybe think twice before blind belief.

a reply to: Skyfloating

On June 8, Snopes attempted to claim that a story we wrote about Veterans on Patrol was false by claiming that we said this veterans group discovered a child trafficking camp in Tuscon, AZ. The only problem with this claim is that we never made it.

I see no proof whatsoever in the article.
Again , just claims "we never"

Sounded like my children when they were young
"I didnt do it..."

I dont trust Snopes , yet they are most accurate , most times.
See , I trust but verify

Some folks only trust if the case fits their ideologies. Yet , never search for verification
You just did.

a reply to: Skyfloating


Snopes, the AP, CNN...they all have "fact checkers". They're wrong more than right. Spinning the bottle is more reliable.

originally posted by: Gothmog

I see no proof whatsoever in the article.

I do, because I bothered to follow their link. Their proof is fully linked and documented.

originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: Skyfloating

I wonder when this will start effecting ATS?????

There is an army of "debunkers" here and on every other major discussion site on the web. All with the same set of methods, narratives and pile ups on "sensitive" topics.

originally posted by: Skyfloating

originally posted by: Gothmog

I see no proof whatsoever in the article.

I do, because I bothered to follow their link. Their proof is fully linked and documented.

Where ?

While it is possible for Snopes to have mistaken our title for the claim they deemed false, the quotes around “child trafficking camp” imply that it was not our claim and that it required further reading. If they are “debunking” articles on headlines alone, they have no business being Snopes.

The Associated Press, on the other hand, did something far more sinister. The AP debunked a claim that no one said in a title, or article, or anything else for that matter. They made up a false claim and then said they debunked it. The AP then used this fake debunking to have one of our articles labeled as fake news and, yet again, thousands of readers who shared our article received a notification that they had been played and shared something false.

This is the manipulative BS we see being played out all over the Internet.

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Skyfloating

originally posted by: Gothmog

I see no proof whatsoever in the article.

I do, because I bothered to follow their link. Their proof is fully linked and documented.

Where ?

This is the link to the false Claim on Snopes.

This is the actual article they posted.

a reply to: Skyfloating

Before the 2016 election, people freely chose their sources for information, had discussions about the veracity and accuracy of those sources if they chose to question them, and then formed opinions based on those discussions. Now, however, this choice and discussion is quickly fading away and is being replaced by a seeming ministry of truth made up of ostensibly objective media outlets like Politifact, Snopes, and the Associated Press.

That's a lot of bull# right off the bat.

As far as their specific butthurt over snopes, who are they kidding? This is what their article says:

Upon further exploration of the site, the veterans found an underground bunker which they say was used to keep children from escaping. Inside the bunker, they found a dresser and two crates. The area was only big enough for children to fit inside.

After discovering this most horrendous site, VOP contacted Tucson News and the police and brought the camera crew out there to document it. Craig Sawyer and Jerry Peyton, a former Navy Seal and Tucson firefighter, explained to Tucson News what they thought of the site.

“I didn’t expect to see something this heinous and inhumane this close,” said Sawyer. “I served in the military to keep things like this from happening here that’s why I risked my security, so nobody here would have to put up with this.”

Sadly, however, human trafficking in the United States is still extremely common which has prompted groups like VOP and Veterans for Child Rescue (V4CR) to begin taking action on a personal level.

BUT BUT BUT we put child trafficking bunker in quotes!

I won't say that Snopes gets it right 100% of the time but this is possible the worst example they could have come up with.

As for the AP thing. What is that? Is that the Facebook fact checking thing? I don't think the AP bothered to do a fact check for a lone post on TFTP. So chances are, it was generic to a strain of similar stories claiming that "conspiracy theories" had been proven true.

BTW, TFTP post about Wal-mart detention centers is also grossly misleading. It's also telling that it starts off with them bitching about Snopes. I read the Snopes post and I don't find anything they need to apologize for. They noted a bunch of cockamamie theories about Wal-mart stores closing, with links to each and then said that the most plausible explanation was probably plumbing problems as Wal-mart stated.

It could have been plumbing issues. It could have been that they were poorly performing. It could have been that they had other issues that made it more attractive to Wal-mart to build a new Wal-mart elsewhere rather than renovate them.

It's really rather insignificant because NONE of the various theories floating around was that an outfit contracted by DHS was going to convert them into immigrant detention centers. It also makes no sense to believe that the Wal-mart stores were shutting down FOR the purpose of being used by the government. How's that work? "Hey Wal-mart, we need detention centers bro, can you shut down some stores and sell them to us?"

That's asinine. Whatever their reasons for shutting them down, the least plausible is that they did it for the government so that the government could make use of them. That doesn't even make sense.

And yet... TFTP: "Conspiracy Theory Proven Fact as Cops Remove"

Not one of the conspiracy theories at noted by Snopes was proven true in any part so that's misleading af.

More generally, the point that the author tries to make about fact checking is kinda lame on its face. Fact checking is just another source of information. You can read it, make what you will of it and decide if you trust it or not just like the piece that's being fact checked.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

An alternative slogan: Read everything. Question everything.

Of course, very few will.

Depressing.

originally posted by: theantediluvian

More generally, the point that the author tries to make about fact checking is kinda lame on its face. Fact checking is just another source of information. You can read it, make what you will of it and decide if you trust it or not just like the piece that's being fact checked.

Fact checking is one thing. Taking action (censorship, throttling, banning) based on seeing things differently, is a whole other thing. No matter how you want to spin it, its insidious and assumes that certain angles to a story - and thats what we are talking about here, free thought project apparently follows a certain angle - should be labelled as "false" and punished for it.

If the insanity of this has escaped you, let me ask you this: Where are the judges of truth going to draw the line between an angle/viewpoint/opinion and false information? And do you really feel the Government is needed to define reality for us, as if we were children?

originally posted by: theantediluvian

BUT BUT BUT we put child trafficking bunker in quotes!

No need to mock that. Quotation marks indicates that they did not agree with the term "child trafficking".

originally posted by: loam
a reply to: Vasa Croe

An alternative slogan: Read everything. Question everything.

Of course, very few will.

Depressing.

It's obvious that "Fact Checkers" don't do their research either.

The people in the comments below the article pretty much sum it up. One comment:

readers like ours are smart enough to question Snopes...to make up their own minds. While our readers...check multiple sources and keep us honest" I'd like to think this is true of TFTP readers, except "keep us honest" doesn't always mean TFTP corrects errors in it's articles. "they have the power to silence anyone they deem to be false" This is not true. Media outlets & journalists are still able to report things that Snopes deems false. "Snopes claimed that no media outlets ever said this girl was separated from her parents." Not true. The screenshot provided literally says "media outlets have consistently reported", not "no media outlets ever said...". Just trying to keep you honest Matt.

And the writer of the article claims to be ex-NSA? I used to like the free thought project because of their criticism of police, but now part of me thinks they are government ran opposition just trying to stir things up between people.

Even if that’s not the case, it just sounds like the writer is salty because Snopes called them out.

a reply to: notsure1

Well, since many topics here start with an article reference or news story I expect it will affect ATS and many other discussion forums out there. The main aim is to control the flow of news and facts by these nefarious forces and they are expending extreme amounts of effort through their think tanks.