AP FACT CHECK: Trump’s half-truths on court case, economy

originally posted by: Kharron
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Good start. Next you should fact check AP and then fact check the President and see which one tells the truth. Don't take their word for it, but don't take the President's either.

Here's the thing I don't understand; why are people putting so much energy into Donald Trump as if he personally is more important than the other institutions in this country.

Does Trump lie and tell half truths more than the media? Probably (I really haven't counted) but so what? Does it matter to me that Trump or the news media tell the most truth. Trump will be gone from my life in 4 years (on average) the news media has been around since I was born and will be around when I die ... which is more important to me? The news media! When are we going to be collectively outraged by their shenanigans like we are about this blink of an eye president?

a reply to: DanDanDat

They have been told by their masters that Trump is the reason for all the problems in their life

Small minded

a reply to: Kharron

No we don't. Lol. You don't treat something as a lie unless you have believable evidence that it's untrue. No one said it was codified in the agreement.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: DanDanDat

They have been told by their masters that Trump is the reason for all the problems in their life

Small minded

Ahhh, you are here. By the lack of any proof posted I am guessing you have not found anything to refute the material in the OP. Will you please refrain from personal attacks and calling people small minded unless you can bring proof that what we're discussing is not true?

I hold the opinion that those that openly believe in lies cannot call others small minded.

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: Kharron
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Good start. Next you should fact check AP and then fact check the President and see which one tells the truth. Don't take their word for it, but don't take the President's either.

Here's the thing I don't understand; why are people putting so much energy into Donald Trump as if he personally is more important than the other institutions in this country.

Does Trump lie and tell half truths more than the media? Probably (I really haven't counted) but so what? Does it matter to me that Trump or the news media tell the most truth. Trump will be gone from my life in 4 years (on average) the news media has been around since I was born and will be around when I die ... which is more important to me? The news media! When are we going to be collectively outraged by their shenanigans like we are about this blink of an eye president?

Dan, I applaud you for even agreeing that he does lie, even that seems to be an unreasonable obstacle. And you may be ok with it, but I am not. I am not ok with people in personal life who do it, was never ok with it in past relationships and will not be ok with it from the news or those who represent us.

A lot of damage can be done in 4 years. If we don't hold them accountable or at least try to expose their agenda, then we deserve everything that comes to us.

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Kharron

No we don't. Lol. You don't treat something as a lie unless you have believable evidence that it's untrue. No one said it was codified in the agreement.

I'm not sure what you're replying to Jaden but I think it's this:

And until we have proof we need to treat it as a lie, purported by a leftist Iranian propaganda website, and the President fell victim to it because he unfortunately trusted Fox News.

If you make a statement and cannot back it up with any proof, what is that called?

And who needs to provide proof, the one making the claim or everyone else?

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: DanDanDat

They have been told by their masters that Trump is the reason for all the problems in their life

Small minded

It's funny in a sad sorta way; people complain every day about how Trump is destroying the the important institutions in this country... news, the EPA, the economy, the election system, health care, Congress, the supreme court and ect ect ... even if I where to believe all of that and Trump is destroying our very way of life ....

... you know what I'm left think; that our highest institutions must be utter $hit if one man ... a baffoon of a man if you ask the very same people who are saying the sky is falling ... can take all of them down in less than 16 months.

Seriously people are worried about a guy named Donald and not that your society is this jaked up? It sounds like people have their priorities mixed up.

You know what I fear? ... when the next Stalin does come a knocking we're fed because our way of life apparently can't even function against a reality TV star.

originally posted by: Kharron

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: Kharron
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Good start. Next you should fact check AP and then fact check the President and see which one tells the truth. Don't take their word for it, but don't take the President's either.

Here's the thing I don't understand; why are people putting so much energy into Donald Trump as if he personally is more important than the other institutions in this country.

Does Trump lie and tell half truths more than the media? Probably (I really haven't counted) but so what? Does it matter to me that Trump or the news media tell the most truth. Trump will be gone from my life in 4 years (on average) the news media has been around since I was born and will be around when I die ... which is more important to me? The news media! When are we going to be collectively outraged by their shenanigans like we are about this blink of an eye president?

Dan, I applaud you for even agreeing that he does lie, even that seems to be an unreasonable obstacle. And you may be ok with it, but I am not. I am not ok with people in personal life who do it, was never ok with it in past relationships and will not be ok with it from the news or those who represent us.

A lot of damage can be done in 4 years. If we don't hold them accountable or at least try to expose their agenda, then we deserve everything that comes to us.

That is exactly my point Kharron ... if a lot of damage can be done in 4 years I shutter to think how much damage is done in a life time. Trump might be here for 4 years, the news outlets will be here for a life time.

Please let's hold people accountable; I am right here with you ... but please can we work on the part that can do more damage first. That's all I'm asking; for a little perspective. It's not a matter of being ok with a president who lies ... it's a matter of realizing that is not our biggest issues ... not even close, not by a long shot.

As for people admitting or denying that Trump is liberal with the truth ... I have never met a single person, in real life or online (including ATS) who doesn't admit that Trump is liberal with the Truth. I know you dont agree; you think there are sycophants around every corner; but im here to tell you that's all in your head. Sure there are people who defend Trump and his actions for many different reasons; reasons you might not agree with; reasons you might fight to the death over ... but every one knows exactly what and who Trump is ...Trump wares himself on his sleeve and he's unapologetic about it ... and he still won the presidency.

We can pretend that the problem is that people aren't willing to see him for what he is; or we can aknowlage that people are willing to support him dispit what he is. But that's harder, that means we need to question what is wrong with our stances that people are willing to take Trumps side, despite all of is faults, over ours.

originally posted by: Annee
Thank you for these threads.

I keep hanging in ATS with hopes Deny Ignorance will find its footing again.

I have noticed there is a decline in hard Trump supporters.

I would like a fact check on that please.

Was it Maxine Waters that convinced you?

a reply to: DanDanDat

Thanks for your replies.

What's the problem with holding both accountable? Why do we have to focus on just the MSM and leave Trump alone?

You must have noticed that more and more people on here, myself included, call people out when they use questionable material or sources? People are doing more fact checking of everyone, discarding disinfo from CNN and FOX alike. That's fighting the disinfo from MSM and making sure it does not spread more than it has already.

Holding Trump accountable is the same thing and must be done concurrently, or neither one will have any effect. Let's put a stop to all lies, as much as we can. When we see MSM lie, post the facts, when the Pres lies, post the facts, when a senator lies, do the same.

Enough lying, period.

originally posted by: Kharron
a reply to: DanDanDat

Thanks for your replies.

What's the problem with holding both accountable? Why do we have to focus on just the MSM and leave Trump alone?

You must have noticed that more and more people on here, myself included, call people out when they use questionable material or sources? People are doing more fact checking of everyone, discarding disinfo from CNN and FOX alike. That's fighting the disinfo from MSM and making sure it does not spread more than it has already.

Holding Trump accountable is the same thing and must be done concurrently, or neither one will have any effect. Let's put a stop to all lies, as much as we can. When we see MSM lie, post the facts, when the Pres lies, post the facts, when a senator lies, do the same.

Enough lying, period.

I hear that sentiment all the time ... "why cant we do both" ... it was particularly rampant during the 2016 elections.

The problem is we can't do both ... our society is like the guy who can't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time ... it should be easy to do both ... and I wish it where so ... but we just can't seem to get a handle on it. Sim3ply look at all the dysfunction in our society and government; if we are honest the common denominator is always that we try to do "both" and the result is a pile of mess.

I think it's time to stop fooling ourselves into thinking we can have our cake and eat it too. For example and on topic, right now the biggest champion we have in holding the news media accountable is Donald Trump... He's not ideal to be sure, far far from it... but he has moved the needle farther than anyone by a long shot. Now we can tear him down because we want to be fair and hold everyone accountable... or we can stand behind him and focus our efforts on the media and see some real change... I promise after the media is dealt with I'll turn right around with you and put Trump in that same fire. But no I cant advocate for hold "everyone" accountable because the result will always be that no one is held accountable.

a reply to: DanDanDat

I think we're more than capable of calling out every lie as we see it. I have every intention to do that; when CNN does it, I'll say so, when Fox does also, as well as with the President or Secretaries or anyone. When things are said or published that have no evidence, I will call it out.

We may not agree that everyone can be held accountable simultaneously, and that's ok. We'll each do what we can.

originally posted by: Kharron
a reply to: toysforadults

PDF of Court Ruling

Here is the judge's decision. Not all of it is pertinent, but read the opening few pages and then all the way down to Analysis. It explains why Trump is wrong and misleading people. Off-base means wrong.

As far as the 2500 citizenships goes; here's how this works: when someone makes a claim, and especially if it is something outrageous, they need to provide proof of it. Saying something outlandish and then expecting others to prove you wrong is... well, it doesn't work. It is on you, or the President, or really, it's on Fox News to prove their claim. They shouldn't have printed gossip from a questionable Iranian website. If they were a proper news agency they would have waited for two verifiable sources. It's now on the President to provide proof this happened as he has records of all such transactions. He won't.

I really appreciate your efforts but this country is too far gone. For the people who think their own opinions are facts everything you say is opinion. Again, I do appreciate your effort though. But the propaganda loving Trumpees are just gaga over the President. Just read Scott Pruitt's resignation letter:

It has been an honor to serve you in the Cabinet as Administrator of the EPA. Truly, your confidence in me has blessed me personally and enabled me to advance your agenda beyond what anyone anticipated at the beginning of your Administration. Your courage, steadfastness and resolute commitment to get results for the American people, both with regard to improved environmental outcomes as well as historical regulatory reform, is in fact occurring at an unprecedented pace and I thank you for the opportunity to serve you and the American people in helping achieve those ends.

That is why it is hard for me to advise you I am stepping down as Administrator of the EPA effective as of July 6. It is extremely difficult for me to cease serving you in this role first because I count it a blessing to be serving you in any capacity, but also, because of the transformative work that is occurring. However, the unrelenting attacks on me personally, my family, are unprecedented and have taken a sizable toll on all of us.

My desire in service to you has always been to bless you as you make important decisions for the American people. I believe you are serving as President today because of God’s providence. I believe that same providence brought me into your service. I pray as I have served you that I have blessed you and enabled you to effectively lead the American people. Thank you again Mr. President for the honor of serving you and I wish you Godspeed in all that you put your hand to. Your Faithful Friend, Scott Pruitt

These people believe God himself is direct cause of their privilege!!!! How can anyone ever be right when the other side is directly touched by God???????

originally posted by: TehDiz

originally posted by: Annee
Thank you for these threads.

I keep hanging in ATS with hopes Deny Ignorance will find its footing again.

I have noticed there is a decline in hard Trump supporters.

I would like a fact check on that please.

Was it Maxine Waters that convinced you?

I agree with you. I have had the opposite feeling. ATS is inundated with Trump supporters believing in the blind ideology of right wing nationalist supremacy over immigrants and the rest of the World.

At some point the United States will get its comeuppance because Hubris is always followed by Nemesis. The people with power and privilege are too far gone drunk with power to even remember what happened after 1929.

originally posted by: Kharron
a reply to: DanDanDat

I think we're more than capable of calling out every lie as we see it. I have every intention to do that; when CNN does it, I'll say so, when Fox does also, as well as with the President or Secretaries or anyone. When things are said or published that have no evidence, I will call it out.

We may not agree that everyone can be held accountable simultaneously, and that's ok. We'll each do what we can.

And that is why the Chinese will eventually eat our lunch. They don't have to make the hard choices regarding Return On Investment vs the nobility in equal opportunity. They will choose ROI every time while we spin our wheels trying to treat every situation equally dam the price.

I wouldn't advocate for totaliterian rule just because its easier. But at some point we do need to set our priorities or our issues will consume us.

a reply to: Kharron

While North Korea has halted nuclear and missile tests, a full dismantling of weapons is a different matter. North Korea leader Kim Jong Un committed to “complete denuclearization” of the Korean Peninsula during his June 12 summit with Trump in Singapore, but experts say there is no proof that a freeze in testing means the North will take concrete steps to give up such weapons.

This is actually a perfect example of the way the left takes anything good achieved by Trump and turns it into something negative and speculate how it's all doomed to fall apart and fail spectacularly, despite Trump having a history of achieving things that are seemingly impossible at first glace. I don't think anyone suddenly believes that Kim is a trustworthy little psychopath and we should have full trust in any deals made with NK... does the left believe people on the right support Kim or something just because Trump was able to deal with him? We have no illusions about the character of Kim, but having a completely pessimistic attitude where you predict everything your own president does will fail is sad, and I'm not even American btw. Like what will these "experts" say if Kim actually does fully denuclearize and decides to integrate with the rest of the world? Making arguments like this does nothing but set them up to erode what little remains of their credibility.

originally posted by: Annee
Thank you for these threads.

I keep hanging in ATS with hopes Deny Ignorance will find its footing again.

I have noticed there is a decline in hard Trump supporters.

well it might be because they are just tired of arguing with you perhaps? Why argue with someone when you arent going to change their minds? Its better to just show them they are wrong in the end and watch their reactions without saying a word.

Trump supporters don't care if he lies. They don't care if he bankrupts them. They don't care if he decimates American leadership across the globe.

They don't care so long as they can chuckle and point and say, "HA! Take that, liberal!"

a reply to: Kharron
Sounds right and the fact that money talks very loud in this world!

originally posted by: Annee
Thank you for these threads.

I keep hanging in ATS with hopes Deny Ignorance will find its footing again.

I have noticed there is a decline in hard Trump supporters.

I noticed that too. And the ones left are getting more worked up, aggressive, ignorant and stupid.