Evidence for the Co-Existence of Humans and Dinosaurs

originally posted by: dragonridr
You forgot one of my favorite dragon stories. Where St George agrees to get rid of a dragon if they promise to become Christians.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

I love the name of the location where George's encounter supposedly took place - Silene, Libya.

I had never heard of that place before reading the story and the various analyses of it.

a reply to: Xtrozero

We see a cloud and say BUNNY! too

We?

Do you have a mouse in your pocket or something? I never see bunnies. Everyone knows they're elephants with their trunks in the air...

While my mind is wide open to the idea of strange and wonderful creatures living secretly in jungles, in the oceans and rivers and even close to humans, I'm having a hard time calling them dinosaurs. Sure, there might still be dinosaurs of the reptile kind that survived throughout the ages. Not outside the realms of reality... But dinosaurs living side-by-side with humans ala Jurassic Park - not likely. It is up for debate though.

The biggest issue I have is using "ancient art" as proof of anything. Anyone with more than two brain cells they can rub together knows you don't believe everything you see on the Internet presented as "proof"...



The same goes for ancient art and artifacts. You don't always know the context, purpose or history of an item or image. If we were to take ancient art as proof of anything, then we'll have to consider other manuscripts as well.

Like the Codex Gigas with a real depiction of the devil...




Or that gazelles and lions played chess in ancient Egypt as per the so-called "Satirical Papyrus".




Perhaps someone's mother-in-law from the Voynich manuscript?




Perhaps my favorite of them all - the Smithfield Decretals:
Showing a time when brave knights defended the kingdom against giant snails...



And homicidal giant rabbits were a real problem...



Perhaps in 400 years' time someone will make a thread on ATS using images from Codex Seraphinus as evidence that little umbrella people existed?



And so on, I'm sure the point has been made.

We just don't know the background of the images used as "evidence". Perhaps the person was a terrible artist? Anyone with a 5 y.o. child can tell you it's often a challenge to identify the subject of the latest crayon art work. Is it a chicken? Is it a dog being frisky with a hedgehog? Or did the child see a monstrous creature with his sixth sense?
Ask someone with no artistic capabilities to draw a lion. Quite entertaining and easily mistaken for a tyrannosaurus rex. Not to forget that back in the day certain mind altering substances were not as regulated and used regularly. Perhaps a the artist drew/carved when they were a bit "out of it"?
And I think it is safe to say that imagination is not a modern invention...

So, to point to an image that's 3,000 years old that looks like a stegosaurus if you tilt your head and squint and call it evidence...
It would be fantastic if 40,000 years ago there existed a Flinstonesque society, but if you've watched Jurassic Park - fiction, yes, but still a hypothetical scenario - you'll understand that if dinosaurs and humans lived together, it would've been unlikely that humans ended up at the top of the food chain.
(Then there's the "fact" that not all those dinosaurs existed the same ages, i.e. Ankylosaurus and Tyrannosaurus lived in the Cretaceous Period, Stegosaurus in the late Jurassic, Protoceratops in the early Cretaceous and Brachiosaurus in the Oxfordian to Tithonian. Yeah, that's right Steven Spielberg, most of your Jurassic Park dinos didn't even exist in the Jurassic era!)

That being said, there is a lot that can be said about dragons, the fact that they occur worldwide in (supposed) mythology, in various forms and in various societies throughout history. If they existed (or still do? ) my personal opinion would be that they are not related to dinosaurs. (Reminds me of a thread I made over a decade ago about Da Vinci's Dragons. Sadly some of those images are lost - and apparently nowhere to be found anymore...)

Fascinating topic to ponder, but I wouldn't use the word evidence.

reminds me of all the sightings in the congo of mokele-mbembe. I believe there still could be something like that roaming a vast unmanned part of the world. www.youtube.com...

a reply to: cooperton

Incredibly awesome thread. ATS ain’t dead!

“Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook
or tie down its tongue with a rope?
2 Can you put a cord through its nose
or pierce its jaw with a hook?
3 Will it keep begging you for mercy?
Will it speak to you with gentle words?
4 Will it make an agreement with you
for you to take it as your slave for life?
5 Can you make a pet of it like a bird
or put it on a leash for the young women in your house?
6 Will traders barter for it?
Will they divide it up among the merchants?
7 Can you fill its hide with harpoons
or its head with fishing spears?
8 If you lay a hand on it,
you will remember the struggle and never do it again!
9 Any hope of subduing it is false;
the mere sight of it is overpowering.
10 No one is fierce enough to rouse it.
Who then is able to stand against me?
11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
Everything under heaven belongs to me.

12 “I will not fail to speak of Leviathan’s limbs,
its strength and its graceful form.
13 Who can strip off its outer coat?
Who can penetrate its double coat of armor?
14 Who dares open the doors of its mouth,
ringed about with fearsome teeth?
15 Its back has rows of shields
tightly sealed together;
16 each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.
17 They are joined fast to one another;
they cling together and cannot be parted.
18 Its snorting throws out flashes of light;
its eyes are like the rays of dawn.
19 Flames stream from its mouth;
sparks of fire shoot out.
20 Smoke pours from its nostrils
as from a boiling pot over burning reeds.
21 Its breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from its mouth.
22 Strength resides in its neck;
dismay goes before it.
23 The folds of its flesh are tightly joined;
they are firm and immovable.
24 Its chest is hard as rock,
hard as a lower millstone.
25 When it rises up, the mighty are terrified;
they retreat before its thrashing.
26 The sword that reaches it has no effect,
nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.
27 Iron it treats like straw
and bronze like rotten wood.
28 Arrows do not make it flee;
slingstones are like chaff to it.
29 A club seems to it but a piece of straw;
it laughs at the rattling of the lance.
30 Its undersides are jagged potsherds,
leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.
31 It makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron
and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 It leaves a glistening wake behind it;
one would think the deep had white hair.
33 Nothing on earth is its equal—
a creature without fear.
34 It looks down on all that are haughty;
it is king over all that are proud.”

a reply to: cooperton

The little boy inside of me wants this to be true!

a reply to: cooperton

It is possible that some dinosaurs survived in remote places long enough for a human to see one and spread the tail.

Then again it's possible that like us ancient man was able to dig up fully formed dino skeletons. And the drawings are based on those.

a reply to: Wide-Eyes

or maybe descendants of dinosaurs that have now become extinct ! thei lines of evolution continuing after the last ELE

a reply to: sapien82

Did you know if you go to China most will tell you dragons are real. But they have been recorded in chinese culture for thousands of years.

a reply to: dragonridr

Aye , Im quite into dragon culture in China!

Would love to go digging around those huge caverns in China and see if you can find old dragon bones !

Some of those caves certainly look like dragon hordes

a reply to: cooperton

Ancient animals did indeed co exist with humans, but they were not dinosaurs-it's what boffins call megafauna.

Tens of thousands of years ago there were some odd creatures like the Terror bird-a giant carnivorous flightless bird that would've towered over an ostrich, and then there is the Diprotodon-which was a Wombat the size of a Prius. Encounters with those creatures would inspire stories the may have got the Chinese whisper treatment.

But you may be right from a certain perspective. Some Boffins believe that some species of bird should be classified as dinosaurs due to the fact that these species of birds share a similar skeletal system and masticating process-I and can't fault that logic.

Giant bird lizards? sure we co existed, But I'm 99.99% sure we did not live in Jurassic Park.

I’m not sure why, but just before seeing this thread I was thinking about past civilizations of mankind in earth that aren’t known about very much or are entirely undiscovered. Recently I was listening to Joe Rogan’s podcast with Robert Schoch where they discussed the evidence that supports the theory that the Sphinx is closer to 12,000 years old instead of the typical understanding of it to be about to 4,500. The evidence he provides can’t be ignored.

So, if you believe that there was a civilization capable of building something like the Sphinx, or Göbekli Tepe, both of which defy the standard dating of modern human history, then it opens up a rabbit hole of other “what if’s”. With that, I have sometimes wondered what other human civilizations existed beyond even that. The humans of 12,000 years ago were obviously more advanced than we are being taught through standard education on the subject and evidence of their existence has been mostly removed from weathering, erosion and humanity itself. So...what else has been erased from Earths memory.

I thoroughly enjoyed your post. Thanks for taking the time to put it together for us. It helps a guy like me think deeper and further away from the standard education we are taught.

Great thread

We need to keep in mind at the root of a myth or legend there is always some truth, also Jeff Speakman sounds like a jerk.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Thanks for the link. If you are interested in his sort of thing, maybe you are familiar with the ideas of Fomenko.

Here is one page: New Chronology there are many more.

originally posted by: Gargoyle91
a reply to: cooperton

Gobekli Tepe

Thats Aghor Wat in cambodia, not Gobekli Tepe. Also debunked:

theness.com...

A few skeptics have based their objections on anatomical differences between popular Stegosaurus restorations and the Cambodian sculpture. The fact that the average Jr. High student immediately identifies the sculpture as a Stegosaurus is considered of no consequence. “The head is too large Stegosaurs had no horns or frills on the head” The sculpture has no spikes on the tail… Therefore, they conclude that the sculptor never saw a Stegosaurus.

Conclusion based on that, no remains and probability say that it is more likely:

OP: Thanks for this thread. I wish someone would compile all the photographic evidence into a good hardback book for posterity.

I have long believed dinosaurs and humans interacted, at least the last generation of dinosaurs (not saying none of them were extinct before people).

Meant to embed this presentation on dinosaur carbon dating:


The dates of 4,000-40,000 years old could be inaccurate depending on atmospheric C-14 concentrations thousands of years ago.

For example, if long ago there was double the atmospheric C-14 concentration, then all these dates would be cut in half: 2,000-20,000. If long ago there was 4x more atmospheric C-14 concentration, then these dates would be 1,000-10,000 years. This is the flaw in radiocarbon dating, we assume the initial atmospheric C-14 concentration is the same as today.

If this is the case, then these dates are approximately the age of the civilizations that depicted these dinosaurs.

Take for example Saurolophus, found in China and Mongolia. This Jade figurine was found from the Shang Dynasty who ruled from 1556 to 1046 BC:

Or more simply...perhaps the fossilized remains of these animals were already discovered by these cultures?

Seems like the most obvious explanation to me.