Alphabet refuses demand to tie executive pay to diversity

Tech and CS especially is a heavily saturated market if you dont have a niche skillset or come from the right school or move to the right town its going to be hard to find a job.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Edumakated
I see both sides of this issue. A company can improve diversity without sacrificing quality.

What actually happens at a lot of these companies is that they get insular in their recruiting, so they never actually see/find qualified candidates who might help meet diversity goals.

I worked at a top management consulting firm. I was the first black analyst in my office. One of only maybe 25 blacks out of like 2000 employees at the time. The company only recruited from the Ivy League and other peer universities. However, they started recruiting at some HBCUs and it helped bring in new talent, most of which were extremely successful. Had they not got out of their comfort zone, they would have missed on on some great employees.

With that said, liberals are hypocrites... they rarely follow their policies when it comes to their own wallets.

Agreed. My experience with prestigious or desirable orgs/companies is that 99% of the time getting a decent job at them means you have to know people. That is through school, sometimes former companies, family, politics, etc.

I'm in a current work place that's desirable, but near impossible to get into without that. I had two friends from an Ivy League get me the job. I do have more than enough qualifications, but still. I know it. It's the same for almost everyone here.

The biggest problem though is that even if one gets in, people that are much better connected at these places often are promoted and empowered far faster, or they enter at a higher level without being more qualified. At my work most of the good jobs go to straight up cronies, many of whom don't have much relevant exp or expertise.

Going back to your diversity point, yes we do need a bigger range of talent. However, that's different than when sometimes someone who isn't that qualified or even capable gets hired over someone else that is to meet some ideological goal or optics. This happens in public sector often.

I don't believe in hiring someone for race alone. I think the biggest disagreement both sides of this argument have is what constitutes "qualified."

School admission, corporate jobs, etc are not based on one dimensional traits. As such, being qualified for a role is not always easily defined. Obviously, there are base line qualifications that candidates must demonstrate, but this is not professional sports where one could argue is the only real meritocracy left (which is why teams are willing to hire thugs and other miscreants as long as they can run a 4 second 40).

EEOC Equal Employment Opportunity Comission Press Releases

EEOC Litigatiomn Statistics

EEOC Charge Receipts

As you can see from the data from the EEOC there are thousands and thousands of cases per year. I'm not saying they are invalid or making any assumptions about any of these cases.

EEOC Color-Based Charges

Receipts 762 965 1,303 1,290 1,135 1,381 1,550 930 1,069 1,241 1,735 2,698 2,943 2,780 2,832 2,662 3,146 2,756 2,833 3,102 3,240

in 2017 there was 4.2x the amount of filed cases as in 1997. Has racial discrimination gotten worse in the last 3 decades? I don't know.



Denver awards $15 million in settle in racial discrimination case

A federal jury Wednesday awarded nearly $15 million to seven Commerce City warehouse workers who accused a trucking company of segregating workers by race, calling blacks “lazy, stupid Africans” and punishing those who complained.

Faux News Suit

2 Black Women Sue Fox News, Claiming Racial Discrimination

CNN Racial Discrimination

CNN faces another racial discrimination lawsuit, lawyer says

Tesla is racist

Three Ex Tesla Workers Sue, Saying They Were Subject to Racial Slurs and Retaliation

Dollar General is racist

The EEOC's lawsuit mentioned that in 2011 the federal agency had invited Dollar General to have "informal" discussions about how to "eliminate the practices" that the agency found unlawful. The EEOC said that the illegal employment practices of Dollar General — which has more than 13,000 stores nationwide — dated back to at least 2004. Paid Post LEARN MORE

Bass Pro is racist

Bass Pro Settles with EEOC for $10.5 Million on Racial Discrimination and Retaliation Claims

10.5 million ain't a damn thing anyway, pocket change

Secret Service is racist

Secret Service settles racial discrimination case with $24 million payment

God forbid you hire an under performing minority or women. Don't fire them if you do! You will probably lose everything.

Is that enough data for you?

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Edumakated
I see both sides of this issue. A company can improve diversity without sacrificing quality.

What actually happens at a lot of these companies is that they get insular in their recruiting, so they never actually see/find qualified candidates who might help meet diversity goals.

I worked at a top management consulting firm. I was the first black analyst in my office. One of only maybe 25 blacks out of like 2000 employees at the time. The company only recruited from the Ivy League and other peer universities. However, they started recruiting at some HBCUs and it helped bring in new talent, most of which were extremely successful. Had they not got out of their comfort zone, they would have missed on on some great employees.

With that said, liberals are hypocrites... they rarely follow their policies when it comes to their own wallets.

Agreed. My experience with prestigious or desirable orgs/companies is that 99% of the time getting a decent job at them means you have to know people. That is through school, sometimes former companies, family, politics, etc.

I'm in a current work place that's desirable, but near impossible to get into without that. I had two friends from an Ivy League get me the job. I do have more than enough qualifications, but still. I know it. It's the same for almost everyone here.

The biggest problem though is that even if one gets in, people that are much better connected at these places often are promoted and empowered far faster, or they enter at a higher level without being more qualified. At my work most of the good jobs go to straight up cronies, many of whom don't have much relevant exp or expertise.

Going back to your diversity point, yes we do need a bigger range of talent. However, that's different than when sometimes someone who isn't that qualified or even capable gets hired over someone else that is to meet some ideological goal or optics. This happens in public sector often.

I don't believe in hiring someone for race alone. I think the biggest disagreement both sides of this argument have is what constitutes "qualified."

School admission, corporate jobs, etc are not based on one dimensional traits. As such, being qualified for a role is not always easily defined. Obviously, there are base line qualifications that candidates must demonstrate, but this is not professional sports where one could argue is the only real meritocracy left (which is why teams are willing to hire thugs and other miscreants as long as they can run a 4 second 40).

Sure, and that depends a lot on role and org.

But in some cases definitely a role of influence can require a lot of different knowledge, experience, education, etc. And, to your point, knowledge of a lot of different intersecting topics.

There are other identity politics dogmas that are used to justify certain diversity hires over others. One main one is that someone cannot understand let's say poverty, race, many policies, if you aren't from an oppressed minority. In this "lived experience" view, it's been raised to the level of mystical knowledge and superior understanding that makes traditional qualifications in areas of public policy and program development less important in a relevant role.

What I am not saying is that all or most people of color or women are less qualified than a given competitor. Let me clear. I have numerous friends and colleagues who have lived experience as a minority or woman, are very smart, have lots of relevant exp, and advanced degrees in the field.

originally posted by: toysforadults
EEOC Equal Employment Opportunity Comission Press Releases

EEOC Litigatiomn Statistics

EEOC Charge Receipts

As you can see from the data from the EEOC there are thousands and thousands of cases per year. I'm not saying they are invalid or making any assumptions about any of these cases.

EEOC Color-Based Charges

Receipts 762 965 1,303 1,290 1,135 1,381 1,550 930 1,069 1,241 1,735 2,698 2,943 2,780 2,832 2,662 3,146 2,756 2,833 3,102 3,240

in 2017 there was 4.2x the amount of filed cases as in 1997. Has racial discrimination gotten worse in the last 3 decades? I don't know.



Denver awards $15 million in settle in racial discrimination case

A federal jury Wednesday awarded nearly $15 million to seven Commerce City warehouse workers who accused a trucking company of segregating workers by race, calling blacks “lazy, stupid Africans” and punishing those who complained.

Faux News Suit

2 Black Women Sue Fox News, Claiming Racial Discrimination

CNN Racial Discrimination

CNN faces another racial discrimination lawsuit, lawyer says

Tesla is racist

Three Ex Tesla Workers Sue, Saying They Were Subject to Racial Slurs and Retaliation

Dollar General is racist

The EEOC's lawsuit mentioned that in 2011 the federal agency had invited Dollar General to have "informal" discussions about how to "eliminate the practices" that the agency found unlawful. The EEOC said that the illegal employment practices of Dollar General — which has more than 13,000 stores nationwide — dated back to at least 2004. Paid Post LEARN MORE

Bass Pro is racist

Bass Pro Settles with EEOC for $10.5 Million on Racial Discrimination and Retaliation Claims

10.5 million ain't a damn thing anyway, pocket change

Secret Service is racist

Secret Service settles racial discrimination case with $24 million payment

God forbid you hire an under performing minority or women. Don't fire them if you do! You will probably lose everything.

Is that enough data for you?

So, what you're saying is, these companies that paid out millions where all actually wronged but couldn't afford decent attorneys? LMAO If a company has settled millions of dollars for a lawsuit, they've been caught red handed.

To reword that, let me get this straight, you don't think discrimination actually happened in any of the above cases, just that these people all won these lawsuits because they are black?

Reading some of your responses, it's obvious that you'd discriminate, so it's not a stretch to believe others wont.

God forbid you hire an under performing minority or women. Don't fire them if you do! You will probably lose everything.

Ah, so all these people that settled for millions, where just under performing? Citations?

None of the links you provided justifies your statement of, and I'm paraphrasing:

If you hire a woman or a minority, there's a high likely hood of your being sued for discrimination

a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

As you can see from the data from the EEOC there are thousands and thousands of cases per year. I'm not saying they are invalid or making any assumptions about any of these cases.

You asked for the data, I provided it. I didn't say anything either in fact I quote what I said right above for you to read ^^^^.

If you hire a woman or a minority, there's a high likely hood of your being sued for discrimination

You asked for cases, I provided them. You risk being sued to discrimination by hiring/ not hiring minorities it's a fact. Don't like the data? Oh well.

Enjoy the backlash. Some might call it white-lash.

Anyone read to the end of that article in the OP? The last sentence makes it all okay...

Those interested in diversity at Google ought not despair, however. Head of design for Google Emoji, Jennifer Daniel, tweeted on Wednesday that eggs have been removed from the salad emoji in the Android operating system, making it more inclusive for vegans.

So, what's everyone concerned about. Google's got this.

The Guardian

More than half of the allegations of sexual harassment made to the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) in 2015 have resulted in no charge. The statistics, which span the past six years, show a consistent pattern in which claimants are unsuccessful.

Law Firm

The Court also found, however, that a threat of disciplinary action for filing an apparently false EEOC charge will usually provide a plaintiff employee with enough to demonstrate a prima facie case of unlawful retaliation, shifting the burden to the employer to establish that it had a non-retaliatory and non-pretextual reason for the threat of discipline.

Oh interesting, case precedence that you can't get fired for filling false claims that can potentially lead to you losing millions of dollars. No big deal.

Wapo

My problem stems from the actions of an underperforming co-worker who is part of a group that I unofficially supervise. Based upon my negative appraisal of their work combined with a personal dislike, this individual has started to file frivolous claims of discrimination against myself and my supervisor. Three of the original complaints have been rejected by our office that handles these cases, and a fourth I am confident will be rejected after investigation. The EEO office informed me that this latter complaint was only being investigated because it came in too late to stop it. I understand that an individual has a legal right to file EEO complaints, but is the individual completely immune from any action when it is shown that there never was a reasonable basis for the complaints? The same individual has also been complaining to our administration, essentially trying to sabotage my career. It seems highly unfair that a worker can be subjected to continual harassment in this way with no recourse.

Oddly enough, EEOC doesn't produce the # of false claims filed. Weird huh? Think there's a reason for that????

USPS

USPS one of top agencies with high reversal rates for dismissed EEOC discrimination complaints

Go figure. Lot's and lots of cases everywhere. No kidding.

a reply to: TonyS

Google is working on their own blockchain.

But there are so many out there already. And better ones I'll bet.

originally posted by: toysforadults
Tech and CS especially is a heavily saturated market if you dont have a niche skillset or come from the right school or move to the right town its going to be hard to find a job.

Thats very true but the real discrimination in the Tech field that the Tech companies don't dare bring up is Ageism.

a reply to: interupt42

Yeah I agree, I know multiple CCNA holders who are black who are doing great in their careers but network engineering is a niche market IMO and a lot of people don't want to put in the work to really learn it

I spend 3-4 hours a day on it, it's hard and nuanced