Question to the left: How much is enough welfare?

a reply to: DieGloke

as long as they had three doctors asseting that they were disabled.
I've gotten the impression that you are in Great Britain... so I realize that things are probably different there.
but well, I had given up hope decades ago of getting any disability from the gov't, the healthcare was so expensive that we would go under financially before I could even get a diagnosis. I settled for just now working, and me and my husband scaling back on the spending, and well, avoiding the healthcare along with those activities that seems to be making things worse. well, a few years ago, my husband passed on, leaving me with no income, and maybe a thousand dollars cash to work with... guess how much help the gov't offered me....
oh ya, they would help me a little with the food stamps, and they would help me a little with the electricity during the coldest and hottest months of the year. but... I needed a home address, along with a phone to get that.
at first, I got by by selling everything that was saleable... then I moved another adult son into the two bedroom home we had, finally, I got social security to just let me apply and have their doctor evaluate me and decide I was disabled. it was close to a year later when I got my first disability check, which wasn't enough to live on by the way.... but that was close to a year with no income... selling whatever I could find and mooching off of my kids who quite frankly, weren't being paid enough themselves and who really would have been better off investing that money into building their own lives...

I'm now in early retirement, on social security. I get way lower than the "average wage of the area", and, if it wasn't for my kids, which, now, I need around because I can't do so much... I would be needing the hud, the food stamps, all all the rest. and, oh ya, I finally got my medicaid card so I can take that social security doctors advice and get myself to the doctors... maybe he can tell me why I am feeling like I am gonna pass out ten to twenty times a day!!!

the working poor, shouldn't have to have gov't assistance and they shouldn't have to find better paying jobs to live. heck, I was cutting gaskets for the navy's planes and was only earning minimum wage at one time!! unless you are telling me that the navy doesn't need those gaskets for their planes, I kind of think we need living breathing people cutting them, don't you? and, as long as society needs those factory workers, those store clerks, those school bus drivers, restaurant workers, and MILITARY PERSONAL... then it's the employer's responsibility to pay them a wage that will keep those employees living and breathing, able to work. and if those employers want a new generation to come up to replace their current workers when they get too old to work, well, they need to recognize that their current employees will have families to support. if they want a skilled workforce, then need to realize that they have to play a role in training that workforce...
they need to stop laying all of their responsibility for all this onto the taxpayers so their ceos, upper management, and stock holders can have greater returns!!
the welfare and social security programs were originally designed to help the disabled, elderly, and single mothers of young children, as well as give temporary aide to the unemployed while they searched for work.. those who had good reason why they weren't working.. it wasn't meant to be a hidden corporate subsidy for big business so they can gain more profits for a select few to enjoy.
there is no fixing the system till that is fixed.

a reply to: burdman30ott6
Oh dear burdman, I don't think you realise your reasons are exactly the reasons the United States was founded. English people moving to the young America because in England if you were poor ( on benefits in your case but in real life no income at all) you didn't get a vote and if you weren't a landowner (which the majority were not landowners) you never got a vote. This was the inequality that drove people to emigrate to America.
Or to put it another way ,no taxation without representation.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Blaine91555

There is that too. I am constantly hearing about how stopping illegal immigration is bad because of all those jobs Americans won't do ... well, it seems we likely have a pool of Americans who won't do jobs.

It think a work program for the able bodied would be far superior to handouts. With the infrastructure crumbling it's not like there are not projects that it could benefit. Even on a local level, it could work out well for both the person in need and the taxpayers.

For those who are disabled in some way I'm all for helping them live a reasonable life. Of them I'd expect nothing, but the able bodied need a reason to get up in the morning or as always is the case apathy sets in and they start making demands thinking its owed to them just for existing.

a reply to: dawnstar

Dawnstar:

My heart and soul are crying for you. I can tell you're doing your best. I'm so sorry to hear you lost your husband and things went down hill. I truly hope you get a break somehow.

Your story is not just yours. So many in the same boat. It doesn't help the situation really, I know, but I still hear you and feel for you. No one envisions their future going badly when young.

I wish I was a quadrillionaire. I'd help the entire world

originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Blaine91555

There is that too. I am constantly hearing about how stopping illegal immigration is bad because of all those jobs Americans won't do ... well, it seems we likely have a pool of Americans who won't do jobs.

It think a work program for the able bodied would be far superior to handouts. With the infrastructure crumbling it's not like there are not projects that it could benefit. Even on a local level, it could work out well for both the person in need and the taxpayers.

For those who are disabled in some way I'm all for helping them live a reasonable life. Of them I'd expect nothing, but the able bodied need a reason to get up in the morning or as always is the case apathy sets in and they start making demands thinking its owed to them just for existing.

100% agree. Paying people to do nothing when there so much needing done is a ridiculous waste.

Providing work for people who want to work is not only good for the economy but also good for them as it maintains core work skills such as time keeping and provides a sense of self respect.

I would say that most disabled people would also benefit from such as scheme as they are often the group that find it hardest to get jobs. It wouldn't matter if their disability meant they weren't the most productive worker. What matters is that they would be able to contribute something which is good for them and society.

originally posted by: DieGloke
Honest question. I don't want this to turn into a trolling thread.

Welfare never seems to be enough for the left. They always want more.

So what to you is a far system?


Me who does not claim to be on the left?

For joblessness I would provide no money instead:

A Bunk is a government run hostel/ Barracks with clean but communal living arrangements like showers and toilets.
3 basic meals a day that gives the needed nutrients and calories. Food designed for cost effectiveness not taste.
If your on hard drugs you don't get in unless in rehab.
If you steal or commit acts of violence/sexual assault you get kicked out and left to starve, provided the police don't get you first.
Must have contraceptives injections until you leave.

That way no one is homeless or starving. To help with finding work these hostels/Barracks would be given communal computers and phones.

If they want more they need to work.

That would cut the welfare bill as it will provide for those that really need it but wont be viable for a long term living due to the very basic nature.



Disability I would handle separately. If you have a true disability that is confirmed by 3 doctors and you really cant work, well I would give a comfortable payout which can be set by local authorities depended on cost of living in the area.


So what would you set welfare as? And how would you pay for it?

A better question is how much corporate welfare enough? Corporate Welfare never seems to be enough for the right. They always want more.

in My country the tax payers paid $4,000,000,000 to build a football stadium on land owned by a well knows casino owning family.

A research project carried out in my country in 2017 found the top 20% of tax payers received tax deductions each year which are more than all family payments, all pensions and all unemployment benefits paid out, each and every year.

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: DieGloke
Honest question. I don't want this to turn into a trolling thread.

Welfare never seems to be enough for the left. They always want more.

So what to you is a far system?


Me who does not claim to be on the left?

For joblessness I would provide no money instead:

A Bunk is a government run hostel/ Barracks with clean but communal living arrangements like showers and toilets.
3 basic meals a day that gives the needed nutrients and calories. Food designed for cost effectiveness not taste.
If your on hard drugs you don't get in unless in rehab.
If you steal or commit acts of violence/sexual assault you get kicked out and left to starve, provided the police don't get you first.
Must have contraceptives injections until you leave.

That way no one is homeless or starving. To help with finding work these hostels/Barracks would be given communal computers and phones.

If they want more they need to work.

That would cut the welfare bill as it will provide for those that really need it but wont be viable for a long term living due to the very basic nature.



Disability I would handle separately. If you have a true disability that is confirmed by 3 doctors and you really cant work, well I would give a comfortable payout which can be set by local authorities depended on cost of living in the area.


So what would you set welfare as? And how would you pay for it?

I don't understand the insane view that some people seem to have about welfare. Where I live, if you get welfare you get $540 a month to live on. What kinds of lives do people assume these 'freeloading' welfare recipients live? Like honestly. I make over $3000 a month and I find it hard enough to live and save money for for things.

People choosing to live on welfare aren't living very awesome lives. I've had to live on ei for a couple months here and there and that was bad enough....I honestly couldn't imagine living on 500 bucks a month.

I dunno what to say...I don't think it's a matter of too much or too little money. Your idea was fairly barbaric, but I do agree just giving people money doesn't seem to work. Job training and placement would help, but i've worked with lots of day labour guys before, typically welfare recipients or drug addicts, and their motivation can be....uh...lacking.

I dunno i've met people who've abused social programs and i've met people who only managed to turn their lives around and do something useful because they had access to welfare and foodbanks and such.

Maybe 560 isn't that much, but if you get almost free housing through section 8 along with food stamps and free medical it's not looking so bad. Plus, many many folks work under the table or live with someone that does work. Also, you can get separate benefits for each kid if they claim any sort of disability and these days almost every kid has a diagnoses of some sort... So not as bad as it looks.

a reply to: dawnstar Dawnstar, thank you so much for a heartfelt post.

a reply to: Isurrender73

What would you consider a living wage?
Should McDonalds, Taco Bell, Pizza hut, etc pay their employees $25+ hr?